5 ms·

I installed Ubuntu 18.04 the other day and was prompted to install some common software such as Slack, Discord and Spotify . I installed all of them, and it mos

I installed Ubuntu 18.04 the other day and was prompted to install some common software such as Slack, Discord and Spotify . I installed all of them, and it mostly worked (navigating to another page in the software centre cancels an ongoing install with no warning). When I ran mount, I noticed that every package I'd installed had it's own entry in the mount list. After I rebooted the machine, these mounts were no longer listed and the software I'd "installed" was no longer available through the gnome menu. I'm not against finding new and better ways to package software but this experience left me with the expression that the technology is not quite ready to be rolled out and adopted en masse.

seiferteric 8y ago
I've noticed after updates I believe, the calculator app just won't open. It will sit there with the spinning wheel thing. After a reboot it will be fine. I noticed that the calc app is installed as a snap, never noticed this behavior before.
- stuaxo 8y ago
  I thought that was just me, haven't reported it yet as I don't use calc enough to bother, but probably should.
- jake_the_third 8y ago
  I've encountered the same issue as well. I found that I could "fix" the issue by uninstalling the snap version and installing apt version instead.
- aorth 8y ago
  Wait, why is the calculator app installed as a snap? As a technology preview or proof of concept it's not very impressive—especially if it doesn't work!
scns 8y ago
Had a similar experience with flatpack. Installed some software 2 days ago and yesterday flatpak told me it is not installed. Teething problems i guess.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
The technology has existed since the 80s, it's just that the stuff people are building today is ridiculously over complicating the solution. MacOS classic had simple single-file programs you just dragged and dropped anywhere you wanted on a disk and ran them. The same was true of DOS (it was a folder, but otherwise the same), RISCOS, NeXTStep and modern MacOS via NeXTStep. Even Linux has had several: NeXTStep style Application Bundles in GNUStep, AppDirs in ROX filer, and AppImage today. They're just not over-engineered enough for the Linux Desktop community to embrace or something.
- digi_owl 8y ago
  The FOSS of today is as much driven by buzzword bingo as the big corporations (perhaps so much of it is made by people working for big corporations now a days). And the really big buzzword in FOSS these days is containers. In large part thanks to the massive presence of cloud derived thinking (i have been told that basically all that mattered was cloud, as that was were the usage was).
- derefr 8y ago
  What you call “over-engineering”, the developers of Snap/Flatpak call “security.” Portable app bundles are not the goal here. The goal is portable app bundles that the user can install from arbitrary sources on a whim without putting their OS at risk of malware or their data at risk of exfiltration. Y’know, like on phones. But also, since these designs aren’t for consumer electronics appliances with a central vendor, but rather are following the FOSS philosophy, you can’t just use a weak sandbox powered by nominal capability manifests signed by a central code-signer, where the app could do arbitrary things outside of its capabilities and the sandboxing wouldn’t catch it (i.e. the macOS approach.) Instead, you have to have a strong sandbox that will actually enforce the capability manifest to restrict what the app can do. Oh, and the bundles can update by self-modifying their contents, creating new executable binaries in the process, so your sandbox can’t be based on signing the initial contents of the sandbox, but rather has to sandbox whatever is attempting to run in there right now. If you can come up with a design that fits those criteria and is simpler than Snap or Flatpak, by all means, share.
  - 8y ago
evand 8y ago
Could you file a bug report here and send me a link? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setu... I'll chase it up with the responsible team.
- mediocrejoker 8y ago
  Sure. I'm at work now but I'll try to get to it this evening.
russdpale 8y ago
Perhaps not, I've had a good experience on Fedora 28. Even though I love Fedora, snap and flatpak needs to work on Ubuntu flawlessly before primetime, as its the most popular distro.

seiferteric 8y ago

I've noticed after updates I believe, the calculator app just won't open. It will sit there with the spinning wheel thing. After a reboot it will be fine. I noticed that the calc app is installed as a snap, never noticed this behavior before.

stuaxo 8y ago
I thought that was just me, haven't reported it yet as I don't use calc enough to bother, but probably should.
jake_the_third 8y ago
I've encountered the same issue as well. I found that I could "fix" the issue by uninstalling the snap version and installing apt version instead.
aorth 8y ago
Wait, why is the calculator app installed as a snap? As a technology preview or proof of concept it's not very impressive—especially if it doesn't work!

scns 8y ago

Had a similar experience with flatpack. Installed some software 2 days ago and yesterday flatpak told me it is not installed. Teething problems i guess.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

The technology has existed since the 80s, it's just that the stuff people are building today is ridiculously over complicating the solution. MacOS classic had simple single-file programs you just dragged and dropped anywhere you wanted on a disk and ran them. The same was true of DOS (it was a folder, but otherwise the same), RISCOS, NeXTStep and modern MacOS via NeXTStep. Even Linux has had several: NeXTStep style Application Bundles in GNUStep, AppDirs in ROX filer, and AppImage today. They're just not over-engineered enough for the Linux Desktop community to embrace or something.

digi_owl 8y ago
The FOSS of today is as much driven by buzzword bingo as the big corporations (perhaps so much of it is made by people working for big corporations now a days). And the really big buzzword in FOSS these days is containers. In large part thanks to the massive presence of cloud derived thinking (i have been told that basically all that mattered was cloud, as that was were the usage was).
derefr 8y ago
What you call “over-engineering”, the developers of Snap/Flatpak call “security.” Portable app bundles are not the goal here. The goal is portable app bundles that the user can install from arbitrary sources on a whim without putting their OS at risk of malware or their data at risk of exfiltration. Y’know, like on phones. But also, since these designs aren’t for consumer electronics appliances with a central vendor, but rather are following the FOSS philosophy, you can’t just use a weak sandbox powered by nominal capability manifests signed by a central code-signer, where the app could do arbitrary things outside of its capabilities and the sandboxing wouldn’t catch it (i.e. the macOS approach.) Instead, you have to have a strong sandbox that will actually enforce the capability manifest to restrict what the app can do. Oh, and the bundles can update by self-modifying their contents, creating new executable binaries in the process, so your sandbox can’t be based on signing the initial contents of the sandbox, but rather has to sandbox whatever is attempting to run in there right now. If you can come up with a design that fits those criteria and is simpler than Snap or Flatpak, by all means, share.
- 8y ago

evand 8y ago

Could you file a bug report here and send me a link? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setu... I'll chase it up with the responsible team.

mediocrejoker 8y ago
Sure. I'm at work now but I'll try to get to it this evening.

russdpale 8y ago

Perhaps not, I've had a good experience on Fedora 28. Even though I love Fedora, snap and flatpak needs to work on Ubuntu flawlessly before primetime, as its the most popular distro.