4 ms·

Interesting read. It seems very connected to the constant trope in American movies of “Hero capture villain but is good so doesn’t kill him.... but villain grab

Interesting read. It seems very connected to the constant trope in American movies of “Hero capture villain but is good so doesn’t kill him.... but villain grabs for gun/knife/nuclear device, forcing hero to kill him” I always feel it’s such a horrible deux ex machima. As a writer, if you want the villain to die have the hero bear the responsibility of the act, don’t just try to morally whitewash it by engineering the circumstances. Also obligatory: Han shot first!

loup-vaillant 8y ago
Even Han was kinda forced to shoot Greedo. Greedo said in no uncertain terms that he'd kill Han, and judging by the rest of the scene, it's fair to assume Greedo would have pulled the trigger on the spot, and walked away without anyone disturbing him. If Han didn't shot first, he'd be dead. That's close enough to self defence that Han can still have the sympathy of the public. Actually bearing the responsibility of the murder would have Han kill Greedo for something Greedo did. It would at least mean Han initiating hostilities.
- jacobush 8y ago
  Also it establishes Han as a thug (for, if nothing else, associating himself with such unsavoury characters as Greedo), so he can begin the Hero's Journey throughout the rest of the film.
- LordKano 8y ago
  Even Han was kinda forced to shoot Greedo. Greedo said in no uncertain terms that he'd kill Han I'm going to have to vigorously disagree with you. You must have only seen the Special Edition. Greedo makes it clear that he plans to take Han back to Jabba. He says "You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship." Greedo didn't intent to murder Han. He was just after a bounty. Han killed Greedo to avoid apprehension and buy enough time to get the money to pay off Jabba.
zaarn 8y ago
That would be the Killing in Self-Defense[0] trope, mixed with a dash of "Thou Shalt Not Kill[1]". There are many ways to pull this kind of scene of, having the hero kill in self defense preserves the hero's status as "doesn't murder". You can have self-disposing villains[2] so the hero even preserves "doesn't kill" or alternatively you go for "He Who Fights Monsters"[3] (if the hero is corrupted)/"If You Kill Him You Will Be Just Like Him"[4] (corrupted and/or breaking their no-kill rule makes them the villain). I don't recommend to click the links, TvTropes is a black hole that'll change how you enjoy media forever if you go deep enough. [0]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillingInSelfDefense https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillingInSelfDef... [1]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThouShaltNotKill https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThouShaltNotKill [2]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfDisposingVillain https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfDisposingVil... [3]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeWhoFightsMonsters https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeWhoFightsMonst... [4]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYouKillHimYouW...

loup-vaillant 8y ago

Even Han was kinda forced to shoot Greedo. Greedo said in no uncertain terms that he'd kill Han, and judging by the rest of the scene, it's fair to assume Greedo would have pulled the trigger on the spot, and walked away without anyone disturbing him. If Han didn't shot first, he'd be dead. That's close enough to self defence that Han can still have the sympathy of the public. Actually bearing the responsibility of the murder would have Han kill Greedo for something Greedo did. It would at least mean Han initiating hostilities.

jacobush 8y ago
Also it establishes Han as a thug (for, if nothing else, associating himself with such unsavoury characters as Greedo), so he can begin the Hero's Journey throughout the rest of the film.
LordKano 8y ago
Even Han was kinda forced to shoot Greedo. Greedo said in no uncertain terms that he'd kill Han I'm going to have to vigorously disagree with you. You must have only seen the Special Edition. Greedo makes it clear that he plans to take Han back to Jabba. He says "You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship." Greedo didn't intent to murder Han. He was just after a bounty. Han killed Greedo to avoid apprehension and buy enough time to get the money to pay off Jabba.

zaarn 8y ago

That would be the Killing in Self-Defense[0] trope, mixed with a dash of "Thou Shalt Not Kill[1]". There are many ways to pull this kind of scene of, having the hero kill in self defense preserves the hero's status as "doesn't murder". You can have self-disposing villains[2] so the hero even preserves "doesn't kill" or alternatively you go for "He Who Fights Monsters"[3] (if the hero is corrupted)/"If You Kill Him You Will Be Just Like Him"[4] (corrupted and/or breaking their no-kill rule makes them the villain). I don't recommend to click the links, TvTropes is a black hole that'll change how you enjoy media forever if you go deep enough. [0]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillingInSelfDefense https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillingInSelfDef... [1]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThouShaltNotKill https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThouShaltNotKill [2]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfDisposingVillain https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfDisposingVil... [3]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeWhoFightsMonsters https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeWhoFightsMonst... [4]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYouKillHimYouW...