3 ms·

For the people saying that this would have unintended consequences, that may well be the case. Somehow, the rest of the world seems to get by without the same t

by Cogito 8y ago

For the people saying that this would have unintended consequences, that may well be the case. Somehow, the rest of the world seems to get by without the same tipping culture. Moving towards a fair pay for work culture may require more than just 'not tipping', but we already have many examples where it is the case. Prices may go up, or tax laws need to change, but just because there are thin margins in the industry doesn't mean that the only way to survive is to force workers to live off their tips. In so many cases it seems like tipping culture merely serves to hide the true cost of a meal or service. Similarly, the odd practice of not including any taxes in the sticker price on goods. This one in particular feels anti-consumer, and seems to persist because sellers worry that their prices, if listed including taxes, would seem higher than the competition. I'm surprised more retailers don't buck this trend more often; realising that taxes were included in Cafe du Monde's list price for their coffee and biegnets made the experience even more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been, and definitely contributed to a few of the midnight treks I made to get that particular treat.

d1zzy 8y ago
Speaking about "unintended consequences", I would like to see a study if there's any correlation between heavy tipping culture and service quality. So far in my travels the US has been the place where waiters are the "nicest" while places with little tipping (but high menu pricing, ex. in Europe) I've had mixed service quality (but generally significantly worse than in the US).
- jacques_chester 8y ago
  The flipside is that I can't just sit and eat or drink in peace in the US. I am either badgered because of a schedule ("how is everything?", inevitably mid-chew), or badgered to buy something ("another round?", "want to see the dessert menu?") or -- just as annoying -- totally invisible if I am judged as no longer having money-making potential. "Good service" is relative. What I want is to make an order, enjoy myself, then leave, with a minimum of fuss. I need a waiter. I don't need a bestest buddy evar!!1! who dabbles in bringing me food and drinks as a hobby.
- zaarn 8y ago
  I live in Germany, what the US tourists usually call "bad service" (because they were being rude or not happy enough) is simply expected here. Nobody where I live expects servers, cashiers or taxi drivers to talk to you beyond the necessary or fake a smile, in fact, my sister worked as a server and was told on no uncertain terms that faking a smile was an absolute no-go. (Though this is less common in the southern European states, especially tourists locations) Tipping is generally only restaurants and taxis, where you simply round up to the next 5€ or 10€ and the waiter keeps the rest. In my experience, I find US servers very unpleasantly/uncomfortably nice/happy while not really focusing on the service quality itself (food quality, accuracy of order or similar).
ggm 8y ago
For the people saying that this would have unintended consequences, that may well be the case. Somehow, the rest of the world seems to get by without the same tipping culture. Thats basically my point: we import many things, but not all things in other parts of the world (from the USA) and tipping culture is something we're pushing back on, preferring to see a realistic minimum wage fight instead (it is a fight: overall I think minimum wage is nothing like high enough, but it is usually higher than in the USA in relative purchasing power) The tax thing totally amazed me. in Australia it is mandatory to quote price inclusive of GST which is our version of VAT, and this horrid practice of pretending there is no tax consequence and then applying it at the check out in US stores really upsets me. I kind of get it: this is the libertarian push back, saying "see how cheap things would be if only those nasty governments state and federal didn't levy taxes" but really, its a trick. Its not what I am going to pay, which is pretty much what I care about.
- Cogito 8y ago
  Also in Australia, but spent a decent amount of time in California and travelling to other parts of the US. So many payment terminals (bank issued as well as square etc) now have the tipping option turned on, but most people here just seem to ignore them. I can understand why restaurants etc would have the option turned on - it's free money! and some people want to tip - but it's a little bit of extra friction where there used to be none. With respect to GST, some quotes I see have it broken out as a second line item and 'advertise' the non-inclusive figure, but that seems very rare. Something even better than just including the full price on the sticker is something that came in a few years ago in all the supermarkets, the price is listed per unit in addition to total price. So a block of cheese that costs $5.20 also lists the price per kg or 100g, say $26.00/kg

by Cogito 8y ago

d1zzy 8y ago

Speaking about "unintended consequences", I would like to see a study if there's any correlation between heavy tipping culture and service quality. So far in my travels the US has been the place where waiters are the "nicest" while places with little tipping (but high menu pricing, ex. in Europe) I've had mixed service quality (but generally significantly worse than in the US).

jacques_chester 8y ago
The flipside is that I can't just sit and eat or drink in peace in the US. I am either badgered because of a schedule ("how is everything?", inevitably mid-chew), or badgered to buy something ("another round?", "want to see the dessert menu?") or -- just as annoying -- totally invisible if I am judged as no longer having money-making potential. "Good service" is relative. What I want is to make an order, enjoy myself, then leave, with a minimum of fuss. I need a waiter. I don't need a bestest buddy evar!!1! who dabbles in bringing me food and drinks as a hobby.
zaarn 8y ago
I live in Germany, what the US tourists usually call "bad service" (because they were being rude or not happy enough) is simply expected here. Nobody where I live expects servers, cashiers or taxi drivers to talk to you beyond the necessary or fake a smile, in fact, my sister worked as a server and was told on no uncertain terms that faking a smile was an absolute no-go. (Though this is less common in the southern European states, especially tourists locations) Tipping is generally only restaurants and taxis, where you simply round up to the next 5€ or 10€ and the waiter keeps the rest. In my experience, I find US servers very unpleasantly/uncomfortably nice/happy while not really focusing on the service quality itself (food quality, accuracy of order or similar).

ggm 8y ago

For the people saying that this would have unintended consequences, that may well be the case. Somehow, the rest of the world seems to get by without the same tipping culture. Thats basically my point: we import many things, but not all things in other parts of the world (from the USA) and tipping culture is something we're pushing back on, preferring to see a realistic minimum wage fight instead (it is a fight: overall I think minimum wage is nothing like high enough, but it is usually higher than in the USA in relative purchasing power) The tax thing totally amazed me. in Australia it is mandatory to quote price inclusive of GST which is our version of VAT, and this horrid practice of pretending there is no tax consequence and then applying it at the check out in US stores really upsets me. I kind of get it: this is the libertarian push back, saying "see how cheap things would be if only those nasty governments state and federal didn't levy taxes" but really, its a trick. Its not what I am going to pay, which is pretty much what I care about.

Cogito 8y ago
Also in Australia, but spent a decent amount of time in California and travelling to other parts of the US. So many payment terminals (bank issued as well as square etc) now have the tipping option turned on, but most people here just seem to ignore them. I can understand why restaurants etc would have the option turned on - it's free money! and some people want to tip - but it's a little bit of extra friction where there used to be none. With respect to GST, some quotes I see have it broken out as a second line item and 'advertise' the non-inclusive figure, but that seems very rare. Something even better than just including the full price on the sticker is something that came in a few years ago in all the supermarkets, the price is listed per unit in addition to total price. So a block of cheese that costs $5.20 also lists the price per kg or 100g, say $26.00/kg