4 ms·

I propose that we petition Congress to repeal this law: "Tipping again changed in the 1960s, when Congress agreed that workers could receive a lower minimum wa

by dgzl 8y ago

I propose that we petition Congress to repeal this law: "Tipping again changed in the 1960s, when Congress agreed that workers could receive a lower minimum wage if a portion of their salary came from tips. The minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13, which has not changed in over 20 years, as long as those workers receive at least $7.25 in tips per hour. Saru Jayaraman, author of Behind the Kitchen Door, explains that a minimum wage of $2.13 means that their full wage will go toward taxes and forces tipped workers to live off their tips." [1] [1] https://www.tripsavvy.com/a-brief-history-of-tipping-1329249 https://www.tripsavvy.com/a-brief-history-of-tipping-1329249

matthewowen 8y ago
As a point of information: there is no reduced minimum wage for tipped workers in California. Wait staff etc must still receive full minimum wage in addition to any tips they receive.
- RickS 8y ago
  I don't think that changes the expectations on the waitstaff side, or the sense of obligation on the tippers' side. The mountain that needs to be climbed here is about narrative/social norms, not real economics. Unfortunately I think that bigger than shifting social norms will be shifting customer price expectations. If you kill tipping, expect wages to go up, even in CA, as staff expect (and perhaps legitimately require) a certain level of income, regardless of origin. It's a little like subsidized gas. The US has been underpaying for gas for so long that I've got no idea what political martyr would try to put that cat in the bag. When a market distortion lasts so long it becomes part of the social fabric, it's real hard to just kill off. I'd love to hear about times countries have been able to pull this off at scale.
  - CoreDumpling 8y ago
    Norway and Singapore tax the crap out of cars and are still doing fine.
    - cameronh90 8y ago
      While I fully support taxing the crap out of cars, Singapore and the USA are hardly comparable. It's the third most densely populated country on earth, and you can walk the circumference of the entire island in about a day. Not even factoring in the comprehensive public transit..
      - lostctown 8y ago
        This can't be stressed enough. Large swaths of the US population would immediately become immobile. I think OP has never lived and worked in a rural area, say 30 miles outside of the nearest town, where survival depends on your ability to transport yourself.
        eivindga 8y ago
        Great point! Except that the population density of the US is almost double that of Norway. (We definitely have our share of rural areas...) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_depend...
        maxerickson 8y ago
        The density people live at is the interesting figure. Of course it's quite high in the US, what with the population being concentrated on the coasts.
        Simulacra 8y ago
        In a way, the invention of the automobile made our lives worse. It meant grocery stores and services could be placed further and further away, stretching out areas rather than condensing them.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
vostok 8y ago
I'm not sure that has much to do with it. People don't become servers to make minimum wage. Imagine if you receive an offer with $160k salary per year, $100k expected public RSUs per year, and $100k expected bonus per year. You'll be upset if you only make $160k salary even though that's above minimum wage.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  "People don't become servers to make minimum wage" People don't take jobs at fast food places to make minimum wage either. I'm not sure anyone takes a minimum wage job to make minimum wage. People take the jobs to make money and try to survive. Being a server is no different. Tips are unreliable and depend greatly on place and hours you are scheduled. Sure, theoretically you get minimum wage, but not all employers make sure you do.

by dgzl 8y ago

matthewowen 8y ago

As a point of information: there is no reduced minimum wage for tipped workers in California. Wait staff etc must still receive full minimum wage in addition to any tips they receive.

RickS 8y ago
I don't think that changes the expectations on the waitstaff side, or the sense of obligation on the tippers' side. The mountain that needs to be climbed here is about narrative/social norms, not real economics. Unfortunately I think that bigger than shifting social norms will be shifting customer price expectations. If you kill tipping, expect wages to go up, even in CA, as staff expect (and perhaps legitimately require) a certain level of income, regardless of origin. It's a little like subsidized gas. The US has been underpaying for gas for so long that I've got no idea what political martyr would try to put that cat in the bag. When a market distortion lasts so long it becomes part of the social fabric, it's real hard to just kill off. I'd love to hear about times countries have been able to pull this off at scale.
- CoreDumpling 8y ago
  Norway and Singapore tax the crap out of cars and are still doing fine.
  - cameronh90 8y ago
    While I fully support taxing the crap out of cars, Singapore and the USA are hardly comparable. It's the third most densely populated country on earth, and you can walk the circumference of the entire island in about a day. Not even factoring in the comprehensive public transit..
    - lostctown 8y ago
      This can't be stressed enough. Large swaths of the US population would immediately become immobile. I think OP has never lived and worked in a rural area, say 30 miles outside of the nearest town, where survival depends on your ability to transport yourself.
      - eivindga 8y ago
        Great point! Except that the population density of the US is almost double that of Norway. (We definitely have our share of rural areas...) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_depend...
        maxerickson 8y ago
        The density people live at is the interesting figure. Of course it's quite high in the US, what with the population being concentrated on the coasts.
      - Simulacra 8y ago
        In a way, the invention of the automobile made our lives worse. It meant grocery stores and services could be placed further and further away, stretching out areas rather than condensing them.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - TheCoelacanth 8y ago

vostok 8y ago

I'm not sure that has much to do with it. People don't become servers to make minimum wage. Imagine if you receive an offer with $160k salary per year, $100k expected public RSUs per year, and $100k expected bonus per year. You'll be upset if you only make $160k salary even though that's above minimum wage.

Broken_Hippo 8y ago
"People don't become servers to make minimum wage" People don't take jobs at fast food places to make minimum wage either. I'm not sure anyone takes a minimum wage job to make minimum wage. People take the jobs to make money and try to survive. Being a server is no different. Tips are unreliable and depend greatly on place and hours you are scheduled. Sure, theoretically you get minimum wage, but not all employers make sure you do.