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I am confused as to why it's standard to tip some low-paid workers but not others: * Fast-food workers do just as much work as coffee shop employees, why not t

I am confused as to why it's standard to tip some low-paid workers but not others: * Fast-food workers do just as much work as coffee shop employees, why not tip them? * Workers at clothing stores take the time to fold your clothes nicely and box/bag them for you - why not tip them? * Grocery store checkout clerks in the city carefully bag up your goods so you can carry them with just two hands - why not tip them? * The guy collecting trash from the streets to keep them clean is helping everyone, why not tip him? It does seem at some point the tipping system will grow so large it'll collapse in on itself. Sadly though, places that have tried to move that direction, in NYC at least, seem to have struggled [0][1]. [0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/why-restaurants-walk-back-no-tipping-policies/482151/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/why-res... [1]: http://gothamist.com/2017/10/19/danny_meyer_no_tipping.php http://gothamist.com/2017/10/19/danny_meyer_no_tipping.php

debt 8y ago
You can tip whomever you want; that’s pretty much how it starts anyway.
- smelendez 8y ago
  That's not really true, though! Some stores have policies against tipping, and it can be awkward if you try to tip someone who's not allowed to accept it. Coat/bag check workers are a good example: most concert halls seem to encourage you to tip maybe $1 when you get your coat back, but a lot of museum coat check workers will refuse to accept a tip and may get flustered if you offer one. I've never seen anyone try to tip in McDonald's or Old Navy, but I don't think you'd be doing anyone any favors if you tried. The cashier would probably be more worried about getting in trouble for handling the situation wrong than grateful.
jldugger 8y ago
FWIW, tipped workers typically work for an hourly wage lower than the minimum wage, and are expected to earn the rest from tips. Most of the jobs you're talking about are not in the tipping wage category, and management just has to monitor carefully. Fast food has tons of computers to do exactly that, and even department stores have secret shoppers and cameras to observe staff. Grocery stores have crazy levels of cameras to monitor staff; I'd say about 70 percent of the cameras are pointed at the cashier (the remainder at you as you wander the store to calculate dwell time and deter theft). Trash collection I don't even know the company behind it let alone ever seen the driver. I assume they have GPS and cameras now that communities have moved to those machine arm trucks. Tipping is a sort of economic hack; you the customer are responsible for evaluating service, and punishing inept or even just lazy service. You're the final buyer of the service, so in a way it's fair; just atypically lassiez-faire method versus the usual social hierarchy of companies paying managers to supervise service workers. I figure if tipping dies, it will be because there's a separate economic hack undermining it. When you live somewhere where restaurants start and fail every month, the cost of a bad tipper reputation is pretty low. And if you adopt an upfront tip model to combat this, you're people's losing good faith as the fee-for-service model no longer applies -- which this article directly discusses. All of which puts us in the awkward position of trying to figure out whether the lunch spot we visit is paying its staff a tipped wage without any actual service -- no bussing, no setting, and just a beeper to let you know you should grab your food.
- freditup 8y ago
  Thanks for the well-written and thoughtful response, you make lots of good points here about how store management provides incentive to non-tipped workers. > FWIW, tipped workers typically work for an hourly wage lower than the minimum wage, and are expected to earn the rest from tips. That's true, and tipping those workers is something one ought to do. My post was primarily in reaction to tipping expanding to new frontiers of employees who are paid a "regular" wage such as most coffee shop workers or waiters in states where there is no special tipped minimum wage. In these cases, it seems strange that one job (food-related service) deserves tips while other jobs do not. I've seen many posts recently such as "Tip the bill challenge proves humanity has a heart" or "20% minimum tip or else", but have seen no such calls to help employees in other fields. It does seem like the obvious ideal is that people who work full-time hours are able to support themselves in a non-extravagant but livable way. I don't claim to know the correct economic solution to get there though!
- scarejunba 8y ago
  In the context of the article (CA and SF in particular), there is no tipped minimum wage. If your wage is minimum you make minimum, and that minimum is higher than most. If you make tips, they go on top.
  - jjeaff 8y ago
    >if you make tips, they go on top You mean they go under the table.
  - jldugger 8y ago
    Interesting, I thought OR was the only state like that. Of course, 'round here minimum wage is like 15 bucks, going by the ads on the In'n'out. Edit: how do you account for this page which indicates a (slightly) lower tipped wage in CA? https://www.minimum-wage.org/california/tipped-employee-minimum-wage https://www.minimum-wage.org/california/tipped-employee-mini...
    - scarejunba 8y ago

debt 8y ago

You can tip whomever you want; that’s pretty much how it starts anyway.

smelendez 8y ago
That's not really true, though! Some stores have policies against tipping, and it can be awkward if you try to tip someone who's not allowed to accept it. Coat/bag check workers are a good example: most concert halls seem to encourage you to tip maybe $1 when you get your coat back, but a lot of museum coat check workers will refuse to accept a tip and may get flustered if you offer one. I've never seen anyone try to tip in McDonald's or Old Navy, but I don't think you'd be doing anyone any favors if you tried. The cashier would probably be more worried about getting in trouble for handling the situation wrong than grateful.

jldugger 8y ago

FWIW, tipped workers typically work for an hourly wage lower than the minimum wage, and are expected to earn the rest from tips. Most of the jobs you're talking about are not in the tipping wage category, and management just has to monitor carefully. Fast food has tons of computers to do exactly that, and even department stores have secret shoppers and cameras to observe staff. Grocery stores have crazy levels of cameras to monitor staff; I'd say about 70 percent of the cameras are pointed at the cashier (the remainder at you as you wander the store to calculate dwell time and deter theft). Trash collection I don't even know the company behind it let alone ever seen the driver. I assume they have GPS and cameras now that communities have moved to those machine arm trucks. Tipping is a sort of economic hack; you the customer are responsible for evaluating service, and punishing inept or even just lazy service. You're the final buyer of the service, so in a way it's fair; just atypically lassiez-faire method versus the usual social hierarchy of companies paying managers to supervise service workers. I figure if tipping dies, it will be because there's a separate economic hack undermining it. When you live somewhere where restaurants start and fail every month, the cost of a bad tipper reputation is pretty low. And if you adopt an upfront tip model to combat this, you're people's losing good faith as the fee-for-service model no longer applies -- which this article directly discusses. All of which puts us in the awkward position of trying to figure out whether the lunch spot we visit is paying its staff a tipped wage without any actual service -- no bussing, no setting, and just a beeper to let you know you should grab your food.

freditup 8y ago
Thanks for the well-written and thoughtful response, you make lots of good points here about how store management provides incentive to non-tipped workers. > FWIW, tipped workers typically work for an hourly wage lower than the minimum wage, and are expected to earn the rest from tips. That's true, and tipping those workers is something one ought to do. My post was primarily in reaction to tipping expanding to new frontiers of employees who are paid a "regular" wage such as most coffee shop workers or waiters in states where there is no special tipped minimum wage. In these cases, it seems strange that one job (food-related service) deserves tips while other jobs do not. I've seen many posts recently such as "Tip the bill challenge proves humanity has a heart" or "20% minimum tip or else", but have seen no such calls to help employees in other fields. It does seem like the obvious ideal is that people who work full-time hours are able to support themselves in a non-extravagant but livable way. I don't claim to know the correct economic solution to get there though!
scarejunba 8y ago
In the context of the article (CA and SF in particular), there is no tipped minimum wage. If your wage is minimum you make minimum, and that minimum is higher than most. If you make tips, they go on top.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  >if you make tips, they go on top You mean they go under the table.
- jldugger 8y ago
  Interesting, I thought OR was the only state like that. Of course, 'round here minimum wage is like 15 bucks, going by the ads on the In'n'out. Edit: how do you account for this page which indicates a (slightly) lower tipped wage in CA? https://www.minimum-wage.org/california/tipped-employee-minimum-wage https://www.minimum-wage.org/california/tipped-employee-mini...
  - scarejunba 8y ago