3 ms·

Guess what, you still don't have to tip if you don't want to. Your "guilt" is your problem, not a problem with the iPad. Anything that increases the takehome pa

by maym86 8y ago

Guess what, you still don't have to tip if you don't want to. Your "guilt" is your problem, not a problem with the iPad. Anything that increases the takehome pay of low paid service workers in SF seems fine. It is entirely opt in. An article featuring complaints about some of the lowest paid people in SF getting paid a little more because of a new technology lacks some self awareness.

jahewson 8y ago
> Anything that increases the takehome pay of low paid service workers in SF seems fine. Anything?
jaysonelliot 8y ago
Another way to look at it is that companies are making it easier to underpay their workers by offloading the responsibility for seeing that they're fairly compensated to their customers. Repeated studies have shown that tipping is inherently discriminatory, with people of color faring worse than, say, conventionally "pretty" blonde women. In this case, the workers don't even get the one benefit of tipping that wait staff do, namely, cash that can go largely untaxed. What's happening here is that companies are setting a new normal that lets them not only avoid the cost of employees by calling their workers "independent contractors," they're even avoiding the cost of paying them a fair wage at all. This isn't about guilt, it's about service workers being hurt by basic concepts like fair and equitable pay, benefits and stability being replaced by a gig economy where their take-home pay is subject to the whims of patrons' moods.
- maym86 8y ago
  I agree entirely. Ideally all this tipping nonsense would go away and people would have a decent wage without it. My main objection was more to do with the sentiment of well paid tech workers I have met who complain about this technology because they feel pressured to tip a low paid workers more. A position I have little sympathy for.
smittywerben 8y ago
> Your guilt is your problem I'm sorry, who are you?
- maym86 8y ago
  In this scenario, especially in SF as a tech worker, you should feel guilty if you can afford to spare a dollar for someone on minimum wage for a tip but are reaching for the zero button. Having the iPad highlight your stingyness is not a problem with the technology.
  - ericmcer 8y ago
    I dunno I am in the exact category you describe but don’t feel obligated to. It is messed up to even have the new tipping system where you have to shamefully press “no tip”. I just paid $10 to get a sandwich in a paper box from a food truck, and you want a 20% tip for handing it out the window?
    - maym86 8y ago
      > where you have to shamefully press “no tip” You don't have to. I think if you can really easily spare a few dollars for someone who earns much less than you but choose not to there should be a little shame involved. Your feelings about not doing that are on you, not the iPad.
Camillo 8y ago
Look, if you want to pay them more, pay them more. I'm all for it. I just don't want each retail transaction to be turned into a labor negotiation! Tipping at restaurants is bad enough: why do I have to decide how much the waiter should make? If you make me think about it, 20% gross honestly seems way too much: the back of the house contributes a much larger portion of the value of the meal, so it feels like I'm stiffing _them_! But tipping waiters is ingrained enough that I just always give that 20%. Any other transaction where apps try to add tipping, though? That's going to be $0 every single time, guilt free. If anything, I feel like I'm doing my part to keep companies from ruining another social interaction.
- maym86 8y ago
  Sure. Big picture, I agree entirely. I automatically tip 20% too as it's just the cost of the transaction and even if the waiter is bad it could well be because of their manager understaffing the restaurant or a number of reasons beyond their control. Do away with the tipping and pay people properly for thier labor. En lieu of that happening (and I don't see it happening soon) I'll still tip at these kiosks. I don't have much sympathy for people who complain about them but I get your point.
- oasisbob 8y ago
  > the back of the house contributes a much larger portion of the value of the meal, so it feels like I'm stiffing _them_! There's a weird economy to tips - in many (most?) US restaurants, the kitchen and non-wait staff (hosts, bussers, barbacks) are tipped out at the end of each night by those who receive the tips. A busy night at a healthy place where everyone is hustling can send everyone home happy.
matz1 8y ago
Exactly, tip is voluntary. I used to have those guilt issue but not anymore.

by maym86 8y ago

jahewson 8y ago

> Anything that increases the takehome pay of low paid service workers in SF seems fine. Anything?

jaysonelliot 8y ago

Another way to look at it is that companies are making it easier to underpay their workers by offloading the responsibility for seeing that they're fairly compensated to their customers. Repeated studies have shown that tipping is inherently discriminatory, with people of color faring worse than, say, conventionally "pretty" blonde women. In this case, the workers don't even get the one benefit of tipping that wait staff do, namely, cash that can go largely untaxed. What's happening here is that companies are setting a new normal that lets them not only avoid the cost of employees by calling their workers "independent contractors," they're even avoiding the cost of paying them a fair wage at all. This isn't about guilt, it's about service workers being hurt by basic concepts like fair and equitable pay, benefits and stability being replaced by a gig economy where their take-home pay is subject to the whims of patrons' moods.

maym86 8y ago
I agree entirely. Ideally all this tipping nonsense would go away and people would have a decent wage without it. My main objection was more to do with the sentiment of well paid tech workers I have met who complain about this technology because they feel pressured to tip a low paid workers more. A position I have little sympathy for.

smittywerben 8y ago

> Your guilt is your problem I'm sorry, who are you?

maym86 8y ago
In this scenario, especially in SF as a tech worker, you should feel guilty if you can afford to spare a dollar for someone on minimum wage for a tip but are reaching for the zero button. Having the iPad highlight your stingyness is not a problem with the technology.
- ericmcer 8y ago
  I dunno I am in the exact category you describe but don’t feel obligated to. It is messed up to even have the new tipping system where you have to shamefully press “no tip”. I just paid $10 to get a sandwich in a paper box from a food truck, and you want a 20% tip for handing it out the window?
  - maym86 8y ago
    > where you have to shamefully press “no tip” You don't have to. I think if you can really easily spare a few dollars for someone who earns much less than you but choose not to there should be a little shame involved. Your feelings about not doing that are on you, not the iPad.

Camillo 8y ago

Look, if you want to pay them more, pay them more. I'm all for it. I just don't want each retail transaction to be turned into a labor negotiation! Tipping at restaurants is bad enough: why do I have to decide how much the waiter should make? If you make me think about it, 20% gross honestly seems way too much: the back of the house contributes a much larger portion of the value of the meal, so it feels like I'm stiffing _them_! But tipping waiters is ingrained enough that I just always give that 20%. Any other transaction where apps try to add tipping, though? That's going to be $0 every single time, guilt free. If anything, I feel like I'm doing my part to keep companies from ruining another social interaction.

maym86 8y ago
Sure. Big picture, I agree entirely. I automatically tip 20% too as it's just the cost of the transaction and even if the waiter is bad it could well be because of their manager understaffing the restaurant or a number of reasons beyond their control. Do away with the tipping and pay people properly for thier labor. En lieu of that happening (and I don't see it happening soon) I'll still tip at these kiosks. I don't have much sympathy for people who complain about them but I get your point.
oasisbob 8y ago
> the back of the house contributes a much larger portion of the value of the meal, so it feels like I'm stiffing _them_! There's a weird economy to tips - in many (most?) US restaurants, the kitchen and non-wait staff (hosts, bussers, barbacks) are tipped out at the end of each night by those who receive the tips. A busy night at a healthy place where everyone is hustling can send everyone home happy.

matz1 8y ago

Exactly, tip is voluntary. I used to have those guilt issue but not anymore.