4 ms·

We have a lot of recruiters sending us "senior full stack engineers" that dont knoe the language they are most confident in and end up being dev-ops engineers

We have a lot of recruiters sending us "senior full stack engineers" that dont knoe the language they are most confident in and end up being dev-ops engineers who want to get into coding. A lot of recruiting firms dont know how to to get candidates either

scarface74 8y ago
I am not referring to recruiting companies that just send developers to a company. I am referring to recruiting companies that have full time staffed developers and project managers that manage the project for you in the beginning and then slowly help you build up your own staff. Some will have a combination of onsite developers, “rural source” developers who are in a cheaper part of the US, contractors and outsourced developers but they manage the entire project. I was offered such a position - the pay is above market but it required too much travel for me now.
- marcinzm 8y ago
  Now how do you separate out a recruitment company who has solid experience engineers on board from one that doesn't but says they do? I've seen many of the latter and many founders who thought they were getting the former in the deal.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    If you are starting a company, I would hope that you at least know what your requirements are and you could sit down with the project managers to hash out acceptance criteria and deliverables.
    - eropple 8y ago
      And then you find that the acceptance criteria aren't met, the deliverables don't work, and your ship date is hosed. What then?
      - scarface74 8y ago
        How is that a different risk than every other project that ever existed - even those led by internal teams?
        marcinzm 8y ago
        Preferably for an internal project you have a trusted delegation chain that would catch the issue early on.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Two scenarios: Scenario #1 - you are a founder with a great idea, you hire a good software dev lead who then fills out the department. You work with the Dev lead to hash out your plan They organize it and after certain checkpoints, the dev team demos progress. As the founder, you are at the top of the chain making sure that there is a product market fit, and ensuring things are going as planned from a high level. Scenario #2. You contract with a consulting company. Your project is led by a dev lead/project manager paid by the consulting company and they fill out the team using thier own staff. They organize the team and after certain checkpoints, the dev team demos progress. As the founder, you are at the top of the chain making sure that there is a product market fit, and ensuring things are going as planned from a high level. There is no difference in the delegation chain or the risks involved. The main difference is that you are writing one check to the consulting company and they are paying the contributors and in the other case, you are paying employees individually. The usual retort is that employees have more loyalty and ownership in the company. No they don’t. The employees at your company, if they are smart, have one eye toward thier next job just like the consultanting company has one eye toward thier next contract.

scarface74 8y ago

I am not referring to recruiting companies that just send developers to a company. I am referring to recruiting companies that have full time staffed developers and project managers that manage the project for you in the beginning and then slowly help you build up your own staff. Some will have a combination of onsite developers, “rural source” developers who are in a cheaper part of the US, contractors and outsourced developers but they manage the entire project. I was offered such a position - the pay is above market but it required too much travel for me now.

marcinzm 8y ago
Now how do you separate out a recruitment company who has solid experience engineers on board from one that doesn't but says they do? I've seen many of the latter and many founders who thought they were getting the former in the deal.
- scarface74 8y ago
  If you are starting a company, I would hope that you at least know what your requirements are and you could sit down with the project managers to hash out acceptance criteria and deliverables.
  - eropple 8y ago
    And then you find that the acceptance criteria aren't met, the deliverables don't work, and your ship date is hosed. What then?
    - scarface74 8y ago
      How is that a different risk than every other project that ever existed - even those led by internal teams?
      - marcinzm 8y ago
        Preferably for an internal project you have a trusted delegation chain that would catch the issue early on.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Two scenarios: Scenario #1 - you are a founder with a great idea, you hire a good software dev lead who then fills out the department. You work with the Dev lead to hash out your plan They organize it and after certain checkpoints, the dev team demos progress. As the founder, you are at the top of the chain making sure that there is a product market fit, and ensuring things are going as planned from a high level. Scenario #2. You contract with a consulting company. Your project is led by a dev lead/project manager paid by the consulting company and they fill out the team using thier own staff. They organize the team and after certain checkpoints, the dev team demos progress. As the founder, you are at the top of the chain making sure that there is a product market fit, and ensuring things are going as planned from a high level. There is no difference in the delegation chain or the risks involved. The main difference is that you are writing one check to the consulting company and they are paying the contributors and in the other case, you are paying employees individually. The usual retort is that employees have more loyalty and ownership in the company. No they don’t. The employees at your company, if they are smart, have one eye toward thier next job just like the consultanting company has one eye toward thier next contract.