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> And they answer, "Sorry, I cannot move forward without a number." > Stalemate. It's not a stalemate. The application goes straight to the no pile unless you

> And they answer, "Sorry, I cannot move forward without a number." > Stalemate. It's not a stalemate. The application goes straight to the no pile unless you're a fantastically great snowflake: > This candidate hasn't done their research on what other candidates are potentially asking, nor can they articulate why they're worth more than that. And even more crucially, I've no idea whether they can possibly fit in my budget.

eropple 8y ago
In my experience on both sides of the hiring table, the application does not go to the no pile--unless, not that the employee is a "fantastically great snowflake", but rather the employer is unwilling to reckon with the market. Dismissing an employee because they won't kneecap their negotiating position for you is a sign of institutional toxicity. (And I do mean on both sides of the table; I've quit jobs upon discovering that the employer would not allow me to hire people at fair wages, too.)
- ddebernardy 8y ago
  Fully agreeing there are many companies out there that are unwilling to reckon with the market, but I respectfully disagree it's kneecapping one's negotiating position to put your number forward. A dirty little secret in hiring is that negotiating involves giving and taking by both parties. As a candidate, it's not like you're going to only give 80% of your work effort once hired or something if the salary doesn't meet your expectations. Your only BATNA is not working for a company that won't pay you that much. So what's really going on is that you're demanding, rather than negotiating, what you think you're worth. With this out of the way, hiring managers (in properly managed companies, anyway) will have some kind of budget or salary band (sane or not) that they need to conform to. If you withhold what you'd like to get paid: An inexperienced hiring manager might very well tell you know much they'd like to offer. You might have a happy surprise in some cases; you'll have a bad surprise in many more. In the latter case, you're wasting your time, and they might discover at the very end of their hiring process that they've been wasting their time all along. The more experienced hiring manager will consider whether the risk of spending any more time on you is worth it. Having been burnt a few times in their inexperienced days, they'll know better and simply bin your application unless a) you're absolutely awesome and b) they've enough wiggle room or political capital to get you hired at a much higher price point than they had in mind.

eropple 8y ago

In my experience on both sides of the hiring table, the application does not go to the no pile--unless, not that the employee is a "fantastically great snowflake", but rather the employer is unwilling to reckon with the market. Dismissing an employee because they won't kneecap their negotiating position for you is a sign of institutional toxicity. (And I do mean on both sides of the table; I've quit jobs upon discovering that the employer would not allow me to hire people at fair wages, too.)

ddebernardy 8y ago
Fully agreeing there are many companies out there that are unwilling to reckon with the market, but I respectfully disagree it's kneecapping one's negotiating position to put your number forward. A dirty little secret in hiring is that negotiating involves giving and taking by both parties. As a candidate, it's not like you're going to only give 80% of your work effort once hired or something if the salary doesn't meet your expectations. Your only BATNA is not working for a company that won't pay you that much. So what's really going on is that you're demanding, rather than negotiating, what you think you're worth. With this out of the way, hiring managers (in properly managed companies, anyway) will have some kind of budget or salary band (sane or not) that they need to conform to. If you withhold what you'd like to get paid: An inexperienced hiring manager might very well tell you know much they'd like to offer. You might have a happy surprise in some cases; you'll have a bad surprise in many more. In the latter case, you're wasting your time, and they might discover at the very end of their hiring process that they've been wasting their time all along. The more experienced hiring manager will consider whether the risk of spending any more time on you is worth it. Having been burnt a few times in their inexperienced days, they'll know better and simply bin your application unless a) you're absolutely awesome and b) they've enough wiggle room or political capital to get you hired at a much higher price point than they had in mind.