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> But if you already know your range. All the steering in the world is not going to convince you to take a lower paying job. Sure. But if the top of my range i

> But if you already know your range. All the steering in the world is not going to convince you to take a lower paying job. Sure. But if the top of my range is $150k, and I'm talking to a company that would be willing to pay me $175k, it's not in my best interest to tell them that $150k is enough to hire me. > My experience is that recruiters get paid a percentage of your first years salary from the company. Generally, yes. But the exact percentage may differ from company to company. Typical example are bad employers with high turnover. They need the recruiters to get a lot of new people in the door every year, while convincing these candidates to walk in the door is typically harder due to the employer's poor reputation. So they end up paying recruiters more, sometimes a lot more, per successful candidate.

scarface74 8y ago
Sure. But if the top of my range is $150k, and I'm talking to a company that would be willing to pay me $175k, it's not in my best interest to tell them that $150k is enough to hire me. Unless you are special snowflake, why would the company’s range be that far outside of the range for the local market? Either the company is incompetent, you’re about to step into some crap, or the employee doesn’t actually know the market. Generally, yes. But the exact percentage may differ from company to company. Typical example are bad employers with high turnover. They need the recruiters to get a lot of new people in the door every year, while convincing these candidates to walk in the door is typically harder due to the employer's poor reputation. So they end up paying recruiters more, sometimes a lot more, per successful candidate. Every job I’ve gotten through recruiters, the employer was adding people not replacing them. Well, except for one where they fired the most senior developer, three weeks after I came in. I didn’t know I was being watched as his replacement and being made the team lead. In hindsight it was obvious when half the interview was asking me to come up with a 90 day plan to create a modern software development shop on the spot after he told me about the challenges they were having....
- dunpeal 8y ago
  > why would the company’s range be that far outside of the range for the local market? Because the "range", as a concept, only goes so far. In reality, there are companies willing to pay above market for various reasons. For example, they're highly selective, and you're the first candidate to pass their interviews in months. Congrats! Or maybe you just successfully completed the exact same technology project they're looking to do themselves. Or maybe they're just doing really well and willing to pay above-market. > Every job I’ve gotten through recruiters, the employer was adding people not replacing them. Trust me, there are companies out there with crazy-high turnover. They typically will not tell you that as an interviewee, for obvious reasons. These companies are always recruiting, always in touch with multiple recruiters, and always pay them well - because they need them the most.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    For example, they're highly selective, and you're the first candidate to pass their interviews in months. Congrats! Most jobs aren’t that selective and aren’t doing work so specialized that that need someone in the 90th percentile. Or maybe you just successfully completed the exact same technology project they're looking to do themselves. Congratulations - you are then that “special snowflake”. You would know that if you ask the standard “what type of challenges are you facing” question when you are interviewing. Or maybe they're just doing really well and willing to pay above-market. Why would a company pay above market value for a new employee out of the goodness of thier heart? I could see the paying a bonus to existing employees. Trust me, there are companies out there with crazy-high turnover. They typically will not tell you that as an interviewee, for obvious reasons. I found that out the hard way during my second outing after my awkening. It was a contract to perm job that was so bad. That I just up and quit in a month without having anything lined up or even in the pipeline. I had an offer for what was then a Fortune 10 company within 4 days. Thanks to a recruiter. It also paid more than I was making.
    - dunpeal 8y ago
      > Why would a company pay above market value for a new employee out of the goodness of their heart? Several reasons: 1. They want to minimize the chance of the candidate declining. Every employer had a bunch of candidates go through the entire process (at the cost of multiple $k each) and then decline the offer, because you were a good boyscout and gave them their "market value" offer, exactly like all their other options, and slightly less than some. If I'm flush with cash, I may put a little extra on top of my offers, to ensure this doesn't happen, especially in a tight market where I'm competing against multiple other employers. 2. I want the employee to be motivated right off the bat, by knowing he's getting paid above market rate. One of the dangers with new employees nowadays is that they know they can easily get 3-4+ offers that pay the exact same (or a bit more) elsewhere. That causes lack of motivation, and some of them will quit if more disadvantages emerge. Paying above market ensures this won't happen. > I found that out the hard way during my second outing after my awkening. What is your "awakening"? :-)

scarface74 8y ago

Sure. But if the top of my range is $150k, and I'm talking to a company that would be willing to pay me $175k, it's not in my best interest to tell them that $150k is enough to hire me. Unless you are special snowflake, why would the company’s range be that far outside of the range for the local market? Either the company is incompetent, you’re about to step into some crap, or the employee doesn’t actually know the market. Generally, yes. But the exact percentage may differ from company to company. Typical example are bad employers with high turnover. They need the recruiters to get a lot of new people in the door every year, while convincing these candidates to walk in the door is typically harder due to the employer's poor reputation. So they end up paying recruiters more, sometimes a lot more, per successful candidate. Every job I’ve gotten through recruiters, the employer was adding people not replacing them. Well, except for one where they fired the most senior developer, three weeks after I came in. I didn’t know I was being watched as his replacement and being made the team lead. In hindsight it was obvious when half the interview was asking me to come up with a 90 day plan to create a modern software development shop on the spot after he told me about the challenges they were having....

dunpeal 8y ago
> why would the company’s range be that far outside of the range for the local market? Because the "range", as a concept, only goes so far. In reality, there are companies willing to pay above market for various reasons. For example, they're highly selective, and you're the first candidate to pass their interviews in months. Congrats! Or maybe you just successfully completed the exact same technology project they're looking to do themselves. Or maybe they're just doing really well and willing to pay above-market. > Every job I’ve gotten through recruiters, the employer was adding people not replacing them. Trust me, there are companies out there with crazy-high turnover. They typically will not tell you that as an interviewee, for obvious reasons. These companies are always recruiting, always in touch with multiple recruiters, and always pay them well - because they need them the most.
- scarface74 8y ago
  For example, they're highly selective, and you're the first candidate to pass their interviews in months. Congrats! Most jobs aren’t that selective and aren’t doing work so specialized that that need someone in the 90th percentile. Or maybe you just successfully completed the exact same technology project they're looking to do themselves. Congratulations - you are then that “special snowflake”. You would know that if you ask the standard “what type of challenges are you facing” question when you are interviewing. Or maybe they're just doing really well and willing to pay above-market. Why would a company pay above market value for a new employee out of the goodness of thier heart? I could see the paying a bonus to existing employees. Trust me, there are companies out there with crazy-high turnover. They typically will not tell you that as an interviewee, for obvious reasons. I found that out the hard way during my second outing after my awkening. It was a contract to perm job that was so bad. That I just up and quit in a month without having anything lined up or even in the pipeline. I had an offer for what was then a Fortune 10 company within 4 days. Thanks to a recruiter. It also paid more than I was making.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    > Why would a company pay above market value for a new employee out of the goodness of their heart? Several reasons: 1. They want to minimize the chance of the candidate declining. Every employer had a bunch of candidates go through the entire process (at the cost of multiple $k each) and then decline the offer, because you were a good boyscout and gave them their "market value" offer, exactly like all their other options, and slightly less than some. If I'm flush with cash, I may put a little extra on top of my offers, to ensure this doesn't happen, especially in a tight market where I'm competing against multiple other employers. 2. I want the employee to be motivated right off the bat, by knowing he's getting paid above market rate. One of the dangers with new employees nowadays is that they know they can easily get 3-4+ offers that pay the exact same (or a bit more) elsewhere. That causes lack of motivation, and some of them will quit if more disadvantages emerge. Paying above market ensures this won't happen. > I found that out the hard way during my second outing after my awkening. What is your "awakening"? :-)