5 ms·

Agree with this. Same applies to any expert: how do you identify an experienced marketer? Or accountant?

by memset 8y ago

yen223 8y ago
... or climate change scientist? Or economist? Or president? The problem of separating experts vs non-experts might be the single biggest problem society faces right now.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  assuming you have a generally good education and brain to start with, a lot of hard work can usually accomplish it. Think Elon Musk learning about rockets, back before he lost his mind. I did it once for climate change, took a couple months, some math. Got there though.
  - chmhsm 8y ago
    Before he lost his mind? You mean the recent interview or before that?
jedharris 8y ago
To hire someone with expertise to solve a problem in a domain where you aren't an expert: You find people who claim to understand the domain, and then discuss the problem with them in depth. Your goal is not to evaluate them in general but to understand how they analyze the problem and how they'd deal with it. You may have to hire them as consultants. You have to dedicate a day or more to discussion with each of them -- maybe considerably more if your problem is complex. You have to reveal information about your plans and/or the condition of your systems that may make you anxious or embarrassed. After you've gone over the problem separately with five or ten putative experts, you will have a pretty good idea which of them understand it (if any), and you will also know how to ask much better questions going forward. If necessary repeat this process, using your better understanding to find better experts and gain a better map of the territory. Once you can rank expertise in your domain reliably, you might hire one (or more) of the known experts, but the best ones will be hardest to hire. Or you may use your new meta-expertise in the domain to look for more junior hires who have an unusually good grasp of your issues. Also, you may be able to get the best of your experts to act as advisors. This takes a lot of time and may cost some money depending on the domain. But not doing it will take more time and cost more money in the medium to long term (and even in the short term sometimes).
- hyperpallium 8y ago
  AKA become expert. I wonder if the people who become fantastically successful simply have the ability to evaluate expertise, without having any of it. i.e. by "reading" people, in some sense. This relies on the "expert"'s own evaluation of their expertise, which mightn't be accurate, because of Dunning–Kruger, or conversely, self-doubt. So, one would need to "read" those too.
  - jedharris 8y ago
    You definitely can't trust people's self-evaluation either way. Lots of really skilled people are self-critical. "Reading people" of course helps but it is nowhere near enough. But you don't have to become an expert. If I hire a plumber or carpenter, I cannot do what they can. But with enough work I can understand which plumbers or carpenters will do a good job.
mathattack 8y ago
Depends on the magnitude of the problem to be solved. Small problem: Ask friends for someone they have worked with on a similar problem. Large problem (building an org): Ask 5 VCs/CEOs/VIPs for intros to the best person they know in that role, under the explicit direction of “learning what good looks like.” Interview all 5 with open ended questions. Ask each for one for one more contact. Eventually you will learn to pattern match, and one of the folks you like will volunteer themselves or a friend, and you will know how to interview.
hyperpallium 8y ago
This is the problem that credentials supposedly solve - degrees, certifications, professional body membership etc. You don't realize the difficulty of the problem until you must hire someone outside your own areas of expertise.
acjohnson55 8y ago
References and portfolio, at the end of the day.
robocat 8y ago
The orange juice test is one person's answer: https://www.intercom.com/blog/the-orange-juice-test/ https://www.intercom.com/blog/the-orange-juice-test/
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kuwze 8y ago
I remember somebody on this forum saying the best way to judge someone's technical prowess is to give a simple explanation of a complicated part of their field. If you can't summarize your knowledge you don't know what you are talking about.
- wpietri 8y ago
  Unfortunately, a non-expert can't tell the difference between a good simple explanation and glib, confident ignorance. So I think that's a good test for expertise, but it's not one that a non-expert can fully judge.

Agree with this. Same applies to any expert: how do you identify an experienced marketer? Or accountant?

by memset 8y ago

Agree with this. Same applies to any expert: how do you identify an experienced marketer? Or accountant?

... or climate change scientist? Or economist? Or president? The problem of separating experts vs non-experts might be the single biggest problem society faces right now.

gameswithgo 8y ago
assuming you have a generally good education and brain to start with, a lot of hard work can usually accomplish it. Think Elon Musk learning about rockets, back before he lost his mind. I did it once for climate change, took a couple months, some math. Got there though.
- chmhsm 8y ago
  Before he lost his mind? You mean the recent interview or before that?

jedharris 8y ago

To hire someone with expertise to solve a problem in a domain where you aren't an expert: You find people who claim to understand the domain, and then discuss the problem with them in depth. Your goal is not to evaluate them in general but to understand how they analyze the problem and how they'd deal with it. You may have to hire them as consultants. You have to dedicate a day or more to discussion with each of them -- maybe considerably more if your problem is complex. You have to reveal information about your plans and/or the condition of your systems that may make you anxious or embarrassed. After you've gone over the problem separately with five or ten putative experts, you will have a pretty good idea which of them understand it (if any), and you will also know how to ask much better questions going forward. If necessary repeat this process, using your better understanding to find better experts and gain a better map of the territory. Once you can rank expertise in your domain reliably, you might hire one (or more) of the known experts, but the best ones will be hardest to hire. Or you may use your new meta-expertise in the domain to look for more junior hires who have an unusually good grasp of your issues. Also, you may be able to get the best of your experts to act as advisors. This takes a lot of time and may cost some money depending on the domain. But not doing it will take more time and cost more money in the medium to long term (and even in the short term sometimes).

hyperpallium 8y ago
AKA become expert. I wonder if the people who become fantastically successful simply have the ability to evaluate expertise, without having any of it. i.e. by "reading" people, in some sense. This relies on the "expert"'s own evaluation of their expertise, which mightn't be accurate, because of Dunning–Kruger, or conversely, self-doubt. So, one would need to "read" those too.
- jedharris 8y ago
  You definitely can't trust people's self-evaluation either way. Lots of really skilled people are self-critical. "Reading people" of course helps but it is nowhere near enough. But you don't have to become an expert. If I hire a plumber or carpenter, I cannot do what they can. But with enough work I can understand which plumbers or carpenters will do a good job.

mathattack 8y ago

Depends on the magnitude of the problem to be solved. Small problem: Ask friends for someone they have worked with on a similar problem. Large problem (building an org): Ask 5 VCs/CEOs/VIPs for intros to the best person they know in that role, under the explicit direction of “learning what good looks like.” Interview all 5 with open ended questions. Ask each for one for one more contact. Eventually you will learn to pattern match, and one of the folks you like will volunteer themselves or a friend, and you will know how to interview.

hyperpallium 8y ago

This is the problem that credentials supposedly solve - degrees, certifications, professional body membership etc. You don't realize the difficulty of the problem until you must hire someone outside your own areas of expertise.

acjohnson55 8y ago

References and portfolio, at the end of the day.

robocat 8y ago

The orange juice test is one person's answer: https://www.intercom.com/blog/the-orange-juice-test/ https://www.intercom.com/blog/the-orange-juice-test/

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

kuwze 8y ago

I remember somebody on this forum saying the best way to judge someone's technical prowess is to give a simple explanation of a complicated part of their field. If you can't summarize your knowledge you don't know what you are talking about.

wpietri 8y ago
Unfortunately, a non-expert can't tell the difference between a good simple explanation and glib, confident ignorance. So I think that's a good test for expertise, but it's not one that a non-expert can fully judge.