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>People are clever everywhere. Such a good idea would have gotten adopted if it were useful. First I thought of Democracy which is not used in China and a clea

>People are clever everywhere. Such a good idea would have gotten adopted if it were useful. First I thought of Democracy which is not used in China and a clear counterexample. Clearly it's not the dry weather there which is the reason :). But I deleted that comment as it's political and, although a counterexample, one could argue that the algorithm of counting votes is not the central idea of Democracy, and it is philosophical and cultural rather than technological. I next thought simply of forks and chopsticks. They're both wildly available, but other than Asians, nobody eats with chopsticks in America and Europe, non-Asian restaurants don't even have any. In China I imagine it's the opposite, and restaurants don't even have a fork for you. We are not talking about a wheelbarrow here (or Democracy!) - but just a $0.50 piece of wood/plastic/metal. Clearly it is not true that a good idea is adopted instantly in the same form. Utensils are a great idea. The west uses forks, the East uses chopsticks.

Markoff 8y ago
they have fork and spoon everywhere in Chinese restaurants, what can be hard to find it's knife also most of Asia doesn't eat with chopsticks except few eastern Asian countries, heck whole southeast Asia it's fork+spoon for most of the dishes, it's just strange CN/JP/KR preference
- takeit137 8y ago
  >they have fork and spoon everywhere in Chinese restaurants I did a Google search and saw: "It is a good idea as cheaper restaurants will not have forks available." https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g294212-i2147-k2629991-Chopsticks_vs_fork_knife_spoon-Beijing.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g294212-i2147-k2629991... This is from 2009, so has this changed in the past 9 years?
  - Markoff 8y ago
    well i lived there for years, honestly i don't have problem to eat with chopsticks, after all i think i am better with them than my wife who used them since birth, but spoon is quite usual item in any restaurant, forks maybe not that common though when i need them for visitors that always had them after all you think all those instant noodles sold in shops are eaten with chopsticks instead folding fork which it's in package? it's not like fork it's some strange concept for Chinese. every Chinese eat instant noodles more or less, majority of them eat them often with fork (when on train or traveling elsewhere) but yeah all dishes from food delivery are accompanied by cheap short bamboo chopsticks
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      > after all you think all those instant noodles sold in shops are eaten with chopsticks instead folding fork which it's in package That's interesting, in Japan you get chopsticks with your instant noodles (although they're put in your bag by the check-out staff, not included in the package)
      - takeit137 8y ago
        At any rate we can agree that the point has been made. It's not like you need some external factor (prove that the reason for this is the fact that Japan is an island, or any other thing.) China doesn't need to be "drier" to make the Chinese wheelbarrow we're reading about more useful, with the idea that the wheelbarrow difference can be explained in full by the presence of mud in the west. You don't need any difference like that. It can just be a cultural map of adoption, with no real reason for it.
    - takeit137 8y ago
      That was my whole point! That the Chinese certainly know about it. All Americans and Europeans have easy access to chopsticks, too, and access to the knowledge to use them. Yet adoption is just different. You just proved my point from the other direction, because in America ramen noodles certainly don't come with a fork, it's not how they're eaten. >after all you think all those instant noodles sold in shops are eaten with chopsticks instead folding fork which it's in package? it's not like fork it's some strange concept for Chinese. every Chinese eat instant noodles more or less, majority of them eat them often with fork (when on train or traveling elsewhere) If you look at how I started this thread, it was just as a counterexample to the poster bsder, so we can just stick to agreeing that the "same" or similar technologies see different maps of adoption for no real inherent reason. In America nobody eats ramen noodles with a fork, amd they never come with a fork. No real reason for this. :)
      - jpindar 8y ago
        >America nobody eats ramen noodles with a fork What? Everyone I know uses a fork, as did I until I decided to learn to use chopsticks.
Splines 8y ago
> Utensils are a great idea. The west uses forks, the East uses chopsticks. Cultures have very different foods. My uninformed guess is that foods and utensils evolved side-by-side. The west doesn't use chopsticks because most food wouldn't benefit from being eaten with chopsticks.

Markoff 8y ago

they have fork and spoon everywhere in Chinese restaurants, what can be hard to find it's knife also most of Asia doesn't eat with chopsticks except few eastern Asian countries, heck whole southeast Asia it's fork+spoon for most of the dishes, it's just strange CN/JP/KR preference

takeit137 8y ago
>they have fork and spoon everywhere in Chinese restaurants I did a Google search and saw: "It is a good idea as cheaper restaurants will not have forks available." https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g294212-i2147-k2629991-Chopsticks_vs_fork_knife_spoon-Beijing.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g294212-i2147-k2629991... This is from 2009, so has this changed in the past 9 years?
- Markoff 8y ago
  well i lived there for years, honestly i don't have problem to eat with chopsticks, after all i think i am better with them than my wife who used them since birth, but spoon is quite usual item in any restaurant, forks maybe not that common though when i need them for visitors that always had them after all you think all those instant noodles sold in shops are eaten with chopsticks instead folding fork which it's in package? it's not like fork it's some strange concept for Chinese. every Chinese eat instant noodles more or less, majority of them eat them often with fork (when on train or traveling elsewhere) but yeah all dishes from food delivery are accompanied by cheap short bamboo chopsticks
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    > after all you think all those instant noodles sold in shops are eaten with chopsticks instead folding fork which it's in package That's interesting, in Japan you get chopsticks with your instant noodles (although they're put in your bag by the check-out staff, not included in the package)
    - takeit137 8y ago
      At any rate we can agree that the point has been made. It's not like you need some external factor (prove that the reason for this is the fact that Japan is an island, or any other thing.) China doesn't need to be "drier" to make the Chinese wheelbarrow we're reading about more useful, with the idea that the wheelbarrow difference can be explained in full by the presence of mud in the west. You don't need any difference like that. It can just be a cultural map of adoption, with no real reason for it.
  - takeit137 8y ago
    That was my whole point! That the Chinese certainly know about it. All Americans and Europeans have easy access to chopsticks, too, and access to the knowledge to use them. Yet adoption is just different. You just proved my point from the other direction, because in America ramen noodles certainly don't come with a fork, it's not how they're eaten. >after all you think all those instant noodles sold in shops are eaten with chopsticks instead folding fork which it's in package? it's not like fork it's some strange concept for Chinese. every Chinese eat instant noodles more or less, majority of them eat them often with fork (when on train or traveling elsewhere) If you look at how I started this thread, it was just as a counterexample to the poster bsder, so we can just stick to agreeing that the "same" or similar technologies see different maps of adoption for no real inherent reason. In America nobody eats ramen noodles with a fork, amd they never come with a fork. No real reason for this. :)
    - jpindar 8y ago
      >America nobody eats ramen noodles with a fork What? Everyone I know uses a fork, as did I until I decided to learn to use chopsticks.

Splines 8y ago

> Utensils are a great idea. The west uses forks, the East uses chopsticks. Cultures have very different foods. My uninformed guess is that foods and utensils evolved side-by-side. The west doesn't use chopsticks because most food wouldn't benefit from being eaten with chopsticks.