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> salaries are unheard in Europe This income exists in the UK for contractors. $150k/year is a day-rate of approximately £500/day if you take four weeks off p

by ukoki 8y ago

> salaries are unheard in Europe This income exists in the UK for contractors. $150k/year is a day-rate of approximately £500/day if you take four weeks off per year. This is slightly higher than the median but reasonably achievable (more so in London). https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/Contract-IT-Job-Market https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/Contract-IT-Job-Market

koevet 8y ago
Same in Switzerland, for contractors (actually more than 150k/year)
- sparkling 8y ago
  Care to elaborate? What kind of gigs yield that kind of money and how is taxation for freelancers in Switzerland?
  - Annatar 8y ago
    Gigs where people have very specialized knowledge, like SAP consulting, or where they have 20-30 years of system engineering and IT architecting experience. Taxation is low compared to the rest of the world, but since Switzerland is closed off to immigration and currently working on clamping down on it even more with all their might, it's pointless to discuss freelancing there. Which means that freelancers who work there live there, and that in turn means that you get an entire tax bill and have to cash out large sums of money on taxes in one go.
    - tomaha 8y ago
      At least EU citizens should have no problem to immigrate at the moment.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      Switzerland isn't closed off to immigration and working on clamping down with all their might, I wonder where you got that impression. It's the opposite. It allows unlimited immigration from the EU. The people voted against that it's true, but the government ignored the referendum and implemented a local worker preference instead. But with unemployment very low anyway, it is easy to argue you could not find a Swiss person to do the work, so this is effectively the same as doing nothing.
      - Annatar 8y ago
        There are plenty of elder Swiss who’d gladly work if they only had the opportunity but are ausgesteuert instead, so there can be no argument about not being able to find the natives to do the work. Finding someone malleable and willing to work for peanuts is the issue here, not a lack of qualified domestic work force. The 7000 contingency limit clause for EU citizens has been triggered, and we know how the last referendum went. Foreigners are a burning topic. Try getting a B-permit from outside of Switzerland; it’s akin to winning the lottery. Whoever got in, got in. The way is shut, and the Swiss keep it.
        repolfx 8y ago
        Was there ever a time when B-permits were easy to get outside the country? I had to come in on an L and convert, most people I know also had that experience. I agree that immigration is a hot topic. However I'm not sure what difference more referendums will make if the government feels free to ignore them. Perhaps they'll have a change of heart.
  - tomaha 8y ago
    Can't tell much about contractors but e.g. Google pays you 10-15% more in Zurich than in Mountain View and you pay much less taxes (and you don't have capital gains here). It's more expensive to live here but you'll still have much more left because of the tax advantages here.
  - koevet 8y ago
    Mostly banking and finance gigs. UBS, Credit Suisse, Swiss Re, Zurich, etc. Not necessarily cutting edge tech jobs though. Also, Zug, near Zurich has turned into a hotspot for blockchain-related startups and fintech companies.
    - Annatar 8y ago
      To be fair, those places have also become unreasonable with cutting costs. IT in the financial industry used to be lucrative but is now about the worst place imaginable, especially since the latest fad is laying off indiscriminately and off-shoring, until the next financial scandal hits.
dogma1138 8y ago
Contracting on these rates requires a lot more experience than you think and a highly sought out specialization often FoTM. Getting yearly fixed term contracts on £500 a day is also not easy even with the former. You also lose your pension contribution which in the UK can be upto 25% of your salary (I’m on 24), ISA, insurance protection against dismissal with no cause and many other things that employers provide. Contracting isn’t a solution it’s worse than at will employment and the OP is right outside of a few cases the salary in Europe is pitiful and the safety net does not cover anything really it only ensures that there is almost no social mobility upwards. Europe despite having the world’s largest social redistribution event aka WW2 is still the mother of all old money and isn’t changing because outside those who in the US would become billionaires it’s nearly impossible to become financially independent in Europe as a salaried employee and even as a sole trader.

by ukoki 8y ago

koevet 8y ago

Same in Switzerland, for contractors (actually more than 150k/year)

sparkling 8y ago
Care to elaborate? What kind of gigs yield that kind of money and how is taxation for freelancers in Switzerland?
- Annatar 8y ago
  Gigs where people have very specialized knowledge, like SAP consulting, or where they have 20-30 years of system engineering and IT architecting experience. Taxation is low compared to the rest of the world, but since Switzerland is closed off to immigration and currently working on clamping down on it even more with all their might, it's pointless to discuss freelancing there. Which means that freelancers who work there live there, and that in turn means that you get an entire tax bill and have to cash out large sums of money on taxes in one go.
  - tomaha 8y ago
    At least EU citizens should have no problem to immigrate at the moment.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    Switzerland isn't closed off to immigration and working on clamping down with all their might, I wonder where you got that impression. It's the opposite. It allows unlimited immigration from the EU. The people voted against that it's true, but the government ignored the referendum and implemented a local worker preference instead. But with unemployment very low anyway, it is easy to argue you could not find a Swiss person to do the work, so this is effectively the same as doing nothing.
    - Annatar 8y ago
      There are plenty of elder Swiss who’d gladly work if they only had the opportunity but are ausgesteuert instead, so there can be no argument about not being able to find the natives to do the work. Finding someone malleable and willing to work for peanuts is the issue here, not a lack of qualified domestic work force. The 7000 contingency limit clause for EU citizens has been triggered, and we know how the last referendum went. Foreigners are a burning topic. Try getting a B-permit from outside of Switzerland; it’s akin to winning the lottery. Whoever got in, got in. The way is shut, and the Swiss keep it.
      - repolfx 8y ago
        Was there ever a time when B-permits were easy to get outside the country? I had to come in on an L and convert, most people I know also had that experience. I agree that immigration is a hot topic. However I'm not sure what difference more referendums will make if the government feels free to ignore them. Perhaps they'll have a change of heart.
- tomaha 8y ago
  Can't tell much about contractors but e.g. Google pays you 10-15% more in Zurich than in Mountain View and you pay much less taxes (and you don't have capital gains here). It's more expensive to live here but you'll still have much more left because of the tax advantages here.
- koevet 8y ago
  Mostly banking and finance gigs. UBS, Credit Suisse, Swiss Re, Zurich, etc. Not necessarily cutting edge tech jobs though. Also, Zug, near Zurich has turned into a hotspot for blockchain-related startups and fintech companies.
  - Annatar 8y ago
    To be fair, those places have also become unreasonable with cutting costs. IT in the financial industry used to be lucrative but is now about the worst place imaginable, especially since the latest fad is laying off indiscriminately and off-shoring, until the next financial scandal hits.

dogma1138 8y ago

Contracting on these rates requires a lot more experience than you think and a highly sought out specialization often FoTM. Getting yearly fixed term contracts on £500 a day is also not easy even with the former. You also lose your pension contribution which in the UK can be upto 25% of your salary (I’m on 24), ISA, insurance protection against dismissal with no cause and many other things that employers provide. Contracting isn’t a solution it’s worse than at will employment and the OP is right outside of a few cases the salary in Europe is pitiful and the safety net does not cover anything really it only ensures that there is almost no social mobility upwards. Europe despite having the world’s largest social redistribution event aka WW2 is still the mother of all old money and isn’t changing because outside those who in the US would become billionaires it’s nearly impossible to become financially independent in Europe as a salaried employee and even as a sole trader.