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That's an interesting story and I wonder why the two governments today wouldn't work together to clean that up a little bit, since it seems like it's bringing a

That's an interesting story and I wonder why the two governments today wouldn't work together to clean that up a little bit, since it seems like it's bringing a fair amount of troubles for the people. I also wonder if the story about the restaurant clients needing to change table is true tho. In theory, sure, but come on. Do you really expect police to come in with a map of the border and enforce the fact that clients should not be sitting at table #4 but table #5 is ok? That seems a little ridiculous too. Also, does that imply that business on the border have to be incorporated in both countries? If not, does the Belgian business have to comply to Dutch laws since it's in part physically located in the Netherlands? In that case, is it really only subject for what's physically in the Netherlands? What if the kitchen is on Belgium side, The Netherlands are not allows to do proper health and safety inspection? As I write this I realise that it brings a lot of interesting questions and everything must be very complicated over there!

anticensor 8y ago
Front door rule applies. If there are two front doors side by side, its tax jurisdiction is determined by area share and legal enforcement territory of both.
SyneRyder 8y ago
> What if the kitchen is on Belgium side, The Netherlands are not allows to do proper health and safety inspection? It seems that way. A couple of years ago Belgium & Netherlands agreed to swap ownership of a small peninsula because it was on Belgian territory, but the only access was from the Netherlands, and so the area was being used for crimes where neither country had legal access: "In short, the Dutch could not go there because it was Belgian, and Belgian police and judicial authorities found it tough to get there. They are not allowed to cross into the Netherlands without permission and the peninsula had no proper landing zone for boats or equipment coming in by water." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-the-netherlands-exchange-land-because-it-makes-sense https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-th...
- detuur 8y ago
  By the way, police can now enter each other's countries more easily by now. Belgium and the Netherlands work together on integration through BENELUX, a politico-economical union between Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. These days it serves as a testbed for integration policies in the EU at large. So recently we signed an agreement that allows our nations' police forces direct access to each other's police databases and to cross borders without having to get prior permission.
  - Ftuuky 8y ago
    Portugal and Spain signed a similar agreement.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  Not exactly the same situation, but this reminds me of the area between the Utah-Arizona border and the north rim of the Grand Canyon. Legally it's part of Arizona but it's much more accessible from Utah (there's no bridge across the Canyon, so to get to the North Rim from the rest of Arizona, you have to drive hundreds of miles out of the way). It ends up being a sort of no man's land. It's difficult to access for Arizona authorities, and Utah authorities don't have jurisdiction there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Strip
  - gpvos 8y ago
    There's an area in Yellowstone National Park where you can kill someone without the authorities being able to sue you.
gpvos 8y ago
Due to the long-standing cooperation of the two countries, it's not really bringing trouble; in fact, it's a bit of a tourist attraction. There were, however, difficulties during the two world wars. They did clean it up a bit a few years ago, because there was some legal uncertainty about a small number of the enclaves.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tnolet 8y ago
There are no real issues. Belgians and Dutch get along fine. It’s mostly seen as a fun, quaint relic and as mentioned below is a bit of a tourist attraction.
hyperman1 8y ago
As the countries are very friendly and work together in almost anything, this is not a big problem in practice. Presumably some very small scale hustling is tolerated as no government official really cares. When there is an actual problem, the two governments arrange another land swap. There is one every few years. Nobody cares, it gives both our monarchs something to sign on an official visit and gets another sheer for international cooperation from the press. If you want to have some fun, you can smoke pot while standing on the border and holding it in your left, Dutch hand. If you're really daring you swap it over to your right, Belgian hand, and congrats, you're an international drug smuggler. If a cop sees it and you're unlucky, I suppose he'll ask a few puffs from you - Yeah I saw that happen in real life, and that was in Brussels a.k.a Belgium and as far from the boundary as you can get.
- ParanoidShroom 8y ago
  This, once in a while a land swap if needed. Else no one cares. The Dutch are fun neighbours.
  - lb1lf 8y ago
    Land swaps can be a royal PITA; the highest point in Finland is most of the way up a mountainside; the peak is just across (as in, within a stone throw) the border, in Norway. To mark the centennial of Finnish independence, there was a campaign in Norway to give the Finns a few hundred square metres of Norway, so that they could get a highest point which was indeed a local maximum. Too bad the Norwegian constitution says you cannot give away bits of the country; a land swap was suggested to ensure both countries remained the same size afterwards, but apparently this, too, would violate the constitution...
    - kuroguro 8y ago
      I wonder if they could both agree to wage a fake war for an hour, then sign a peace treaty detailing the new border.
      - 8y ago
johannes1234321 8y ago
Cleaning up isn't trivial - cleaning this up means that some people suddenly life or work in a different country, with different regulation and taxation. For good and bad reasons this will lead to protests.
toolslive 8y ago
They exchanged some pieces of land along the Maas river. Belgium had a piece of land on the Dutch riverside with no bridge near. There were parties there and the Dutch police had no jurisdiction, while the Belgian police needed at least 45 minutes to get there. In the end, both governments had enough of this and swapped a bit of land.
dnautics 8y ago
It was actually troublesome for cooch Behar in India/bangladesh, but that situation was resolved recently by treaty.
vincvinc 8y ago
I’ve spent a few days there working for a Japanese television program - it seems everyone there has a quirky story regarding the borders. The city hall has a border going through it. Both the Belgian and Dutch municipalities are housed there, as are the two police stations. The Belgian and Dutch police share one office, but the border goes right through it. https://goo.gl/maps/LBreHZLyjqo https://goo.gl/maps/LBreHZLyjqo The police shared plenty of stories with us about how they have to cooperate with each other in order to do their work - since some of the borders are “3D” (eg. where the ground floor of an old house is half Belgian half Dutch, but the upper floors are full Dutch) they sometimes officially need the help of the other police to get access to all of a crime scene. Then there’s the fact that people in that town consciously choose in which of the two jurisdictions they do something: getting gas, going to school, groceries, all related to tax and regulations. If your house is located in the two countries at once, the position of your front door decides under which jurisidiction you actually live. Same for stores / restaurants.

anticensor 8y ago

Front door rule applies. If there are two front doors side by side, its tax jurisdiction is determined by area share and legal enforcement territory of both.

SyneRyder 8y ago

> What if the kitchen is on Belgium side, The Netherlands are not allows to do proper health and safety inspection? It seems that way. A couple of years ago Belgium & Netherlands agreed to swap ownership of a small peninsula because it was on Belgian territory, but the only access was from the Netherlands, and so the area was being used for crimes where neither country had legal access: "In short, the Dutch could not go there because it was Belgian, and Belgian police and judicial authorities found it tough to get there. They are not allowed to cross into the Netherlands without permission and the peninsula had no proper landing zone for boats or equipment coming in by water." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-the-netherlands-exchange-land-because-it-makes-sense https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-th...

detuur 8y ago
By the way, police can now enter each other's countries more easily by now. Belgium and the Netherlands work together on integration through BENELUX, a politico-economical union between Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. These days it serves as a testbed for integration policies in the EU at large. So recently we signed an agreement that allows our nations' police forces direct access to each other's police databases and to cross borders without having to get prior permission.
- Ftuuky 8y ago
  Portugal and Spain signed a similar agreement.
umanwizard 8y ago
Not exactly the same situation, but this reminds me of the area between the Utah-Arizona border and the north rim of the Grand Canyon. Legally it's part of Arizona but it's much more accessible from Utah (there's no bridge across the Canyon, so to get to the North Rim from the rest of Arizona, you have to drive hundreds of miles out of the way). It ends up being a sort of no man's land. It's difficult to access for Arizona authorities, and Utah authorities don't have jurisdiction there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Strip
- gpvos 8y ago
  There's an area in Yellowstone National Park where you can kill someone without the authorities being able to sue you.

gpvos 8y ago

Due to the long-standing cooperation of the two countries, it's not really bringing trouble; in fact, it's a bit of a tourist attraction. There were, however, difficulties during the two world wars. They did clean it up a bit a few years ago, because there was some legal uncertainty about a small number of the enclaves.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

tnolet 8y ago

There are no real issues. Belgians and Dutch get along fine. It’s mostly seen as a fun, quaint relic and as mentioned below is a bit of a tourist attraction.

hyperman1 8y ago

As the countries are very friendly and work together in almost anything, this is not a big problem in practice. Presumably some very small scale hustling is tolerated as no government official really cares. When there is an actual problem, the two governments arrange another land swap. There is one every few years. Nobody cares, it gives both our monarchs something to sign on an official visit and gets another sheer for international cooperation from the press. If you want to have some fun, you can smoke pot while standing on the border and holding it in your left, Dutch hand. If you're really daring you swap it over to your right, Belgian hand, and congrats, you're an international drug smuggler. If a cop sees it and you're unlucky, I suppose he'll ask a few puffs from you - Yeah I saw that happen in real life, and that was in Brussels a.k.a Belgium and as far from the boundary as you can get.

ParanoidShroom 8y ago
This, once in a while a land swap if needed. Else no one cares. The Dutch are fun neighbours.
- lb1lf 8y ago
  Land swaps can be a royal PITA; the highest point in Finland is most of the way up a mountainside; the peak is just across (as in, within a stone throw) the border, in Norway. To mark the centennial of Finnish independence, there was a campaign in Norway to give the Finns a few hundred square metres of Norway, so that they could get a highest point which was indeed a local maximum. Too bad the Norwegian constitution says you cannot give away bits of the country; a land swap was suggested to ensure both countries remained the same size afterwards, but apparently this, too, would violate the constitution...
  - kuroguro 8y ago
    I wonder if they could both agree to wage a fake war for an hour, then sign a peace treaty detailing the new border.
    - 8y ago

johannes1234321 8y ago

Cleaning up isn't trivial - cleaning this up means that some people suddenly life or work in a different country, with different regulation and taxation. For good and bad reasons this will lead to protests.

toolslive 8y ago

They exchanged some pieces of land along the Maas river. Belgium had a piece of land on the Dutch riverside with no bridge near. There were parties there and the Dutch police had no jurisdiction, while the Belgian police needed at least 45 minutes to get there. In the end, both governments had enough of this and swapped a bit of land.

dnautics 8y ago

It was actually troublesome for cooch Behar in India/bangladesh, but that situation was resolved recently by treaty.

vincvinc 8y ago

I’ve spent a few days there working for a Japanese television program - it seems everyone there has a quirky story regarding the borders. The city hall has a border going through it. Both the Belgian and Dutch municipalities are housed there, as are the two police stations. The Belgian and Dutch police share one office, but the border goes right through it. https://goo.gl/maps/LBreHZLyjqo https://goo.gl/maps/LBreHZLyjqo The police shared plenty of stories with us about how they have to cooperate with each other in order to do their work - since some of the borders are “3D” (eg. where the ground floor of an old house is half Belgian half Dutch, but the upper floors are full Dutch) they sometimes officially need the help of the other police to get access to all of a crime scene. Then there’s the fact that people in that town consciously choose in which of the two jurisdictions they do something: getting gas, going to school, groceries, all related to tax and regulations. If your house is located in the two countries at once, the position of your front door decides under which jurisidiction you actually live. Same for stores / restaurants.