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Completely agree. I have the 15inch 2015 MacBook Pro and a Surface Book 2. It took a bit trial but I now have a setup I like using WSL for development, and have

Completely agree. I have the 15inch 2015 MacBook Pro and a Surface Book 2. It took a bit trial but I now have a setup I like using WSL for development, and have brought all the MacOS keyboard shortcuts over with autohotkey. All Apple needed to do was have a single model without the touchbar and I would have purchased a newer model regardless of potential keyboard issues. Surface Book 2 is the most brilliant hardware I've ever used that actually makes my MacBook feel archaic in comparison. The keyboard in my opinion is the best I've ever used and being able to detatch the screen and write on screen and read books in portrait mode feels like some alien technology. Battery life is also a huge win. I was very skeptical of Windows as a development environment so bought the 8GB version as mainly a secondary computer/screen and notepad when doing work in cafes alongside my Macbook. I'll probably end up selling it and getting a the 15inch 16gb version. My Surface has only recently dethroned my MacBook as my daily driver after spending time to set it up properly. Also once you get used to a touchscreen it feels unnatural to not have one.

jpangs88 8y ago
Apple does have one model without a touchbar but it's thirteen inch and has lower specs. I am pretty sure it too has a T2 chip and the same keyboard flaws. It's what I'd buy if I bought a Mac but I don't think I will.
- Naomarik 8y ago
  Unfortunately that one is dual core. They don't have a quad core laptop in their line up with a full keyboard.
- lloeki 8y ago
  Since the T2 chip is mostly about the Touch Bar / Touch ID / secure enclave then no, the FN MBP doesn't have the T2 chip nor BridgeOS. Also, the FN MBP hardware hasn't been upgraded at all like the TB ones were, so the CPU is one gen earlier and thus dual core, while keyboard flaws remain since it's a non-fixed keyboard (the one without the rubber thingies)
  - ChrisLTD 8y ago
    Looks like the 2018 models haven’t exactly solved the keyboard issues. https://twitter.com/ismh/status/1030260782699892739?s=20 https://twitter.com/ismh/status/1030260782699892739?s=20 https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1030523625726779394?s=20 https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1030523625726779394?s=20
  - jpangs88 8y ago
    The T2 chip also controls the secure boot functionality, I don't think that Apple would skip adding it in just because it doesn't have the touch bar. Here is a link from Apple that says all of their Macbook Pro models have T2 chips from 2018 onward. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 But I still may be wrong though where did you read that the MBP without a touch bar doesn't have a T2 chip?
    - lloeki 8y ago
      The FN ones haven't been refreshed, therefore they're MacBookPro14,1 (mid 2017). I can't find a link right now for a source but it was mentioned in various sources from teardowns to discussions about provisioned setups and Linux installs.
      - jpangs88 8y ago
        Found a link to a forum saying exactly what you said. Weird that they don't say anything about this computer. I wonder why they even sell it at all. I guess they still sell the MacBook Air which hasn't been refreshed in a while so that's just one of their business models, sell old tech at modern prices and spend nothing on advertising. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/future-13-macbook-pro-w-function-keys-speculation.2123466/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/future-13-macbook-pro-w...
scandox 8y ago
I just find the touch experience on Surface to be completely lamentable and the hybrid desktop-tablet interface boggles my mind. I agree the hardware is fantastic but I find Windows 10 intolerable.
- pier25 8y ago
  I agree. Windows 10 is not ready to be used property as a tablet. For example, the only way to get a slider to adjust display brightness was opening the OS display settings. At least that was the case the last time I tried it.
  - stevep001 8y ago
    Brighter = Fn + Del Dimmer = Fn + Backspace
    - pier25 8y ago
      In tablet mode with no keyboard?
  - dtang 8y ago
    You can adjust brightness by swiping from the right edge to bring out the notification bar (called action center) and then tap the brightness tile to switch through five modes of brightness. It's not a slider but it does the job well. That said overall the tablet experience on Windows 10 is not ready for prime time. I get weirdness with the on-screen keyboard as well as quirks with Explorer and so on.

jpangs88 8y ago

Apple does have one model without a touchbar but it's thirteen inch and has lower specs. I am pretty sure it too has a T2 chip and the same keyboard flaws. It's what I'd buy if I bought a Mac but I don't think I will.

Naomarik 8y ago
Unfortunately that one is dual core. They don't have a quad core laptop in their line up with a full keyboard.
lloeki 8y ago
Since the T2 chip is mostly about the Touch Bar / Touch ID / secure enclave then no, the FN MBP doesn't have the T2 chip nor BridgeOS. Also, the FN MBP hardware hasn't been upgraded at all like the TB ones were, so the CPU is one gen earlier and thus dual core, while keyboard flaws remain since it's a non-fixed keyboard (the one without the rubber thingies)
- ChrisLTD 8y ago
  Looks like the 2018 models haven’t exactly solved the keyboard issues. https://twitter.com/ismh/status/1030260782699892739?s=20 https://twitter.com/ismh/status/1030260782699892739?s=20 https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1030523625726779394?s=20 https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1030523625726779394?s=20
- jpangs88 8y ago
  The T2 chip also controls the secure boot functionality, I don't think that Apple would skip adding it in just because it doesn't have the touch bar. Here is a link from Apple that says all of their Macbook Pro models have T2 chips from 2018 onward. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 But I still may be wrong though where did you read that the MBP without a touch bar doesn't have a T2 chip?
  - lloeki 8y ago
    The FN ones haven't been refreshed, therefore they're MacBookPro14,1 (mid 2017). I can't find a link right now for a source but it was mentioned in various sources from teardowns to discussions about provisioned setups and Linux installs.
    - jpangs88 8y ago
      Found a link to a forum saying exactly what you said. Weird that they don't say anything about this computer. I wonder why they even sell it at all. I guess they still sell the MacBook Air which hasn't been refreshed in a while so that's just one of their business models, sell old tech at modern prices and spend nothing on advertising. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/future-13-macbook-pro-w-function-keys-speculation.2123466/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/future-13-macbook-pro-w...

scandox 8y ago

I just find the touch experience on Surface to be completely lamentable and the hybrid desktop-tablet interface boggles my mind. I agree the hardware is fantastic but I find Windows 10 intolerable.

pier25 8y ago
I agree. Windows 10 is not ready to be used property as a tablet. For example, the only way to get a slider to adjust display brightness was opening the OS display settings. At least that was the case the last time I tried it.
- stevep001 8y ago
  Brighter = Fn + Del Dimmer = Fn + Backspace
  - pier25 8y ago
    In tablet mode with no keyboard?
- dtang 8y ago
  You can adjust brightness by swiping from the right edge to bring out the notification bar (called action center) and then tap the brightness tile to switch through five modes of brightness. It's not a slider but it does the job well. That said overall the tablet experience on Windows 10 is not ready for prime time. I get weirdness with the on-screen keyboard as well as quirks with Explorer and so on.