7 ms·

Auto makers are figuring out how to monetize drivers’ data

68 points by petethomas 8y ago

predictionable 8y ago
How do we bypass the WSJ paywall again?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ardy42 8y ago
  http://archive.is/qaMgc http://archive.is/qaMgc
mehrdadn 8y ago
> But many car makers have bigger plans, including using the data to craft targeted in-car advertisements Lo and behold, you're always the product, no matter how many thousands of dollars you're paying.
astura 8y ago
https://outline.com/sv6cJt https://outline.com/sv6cJt
taneq 8y ago
> Later this year, GM also plans to introduce a new feature that can detect when a vehicle’s fuel tank is low and then offer a coupon on the car’s display for a discount at a nearby gas station, said Brian Hoglund, a business development director for GCCX, GM’s connectivity unit. Retailers then pay GM a fee for steering customers their way. And every time someone says "but how does it harm me for advertisers to know everything about me?", THIS is the answer. It's not just "finding things you might like to buy". It's "auctioning you off to vendors based on how badly you need the thing." The market is an information game and if one side knows more than the other, then they have an advantage. Really think it'll stop at helpfully suggesting a nearby gas station, when Station A can just pay $1/customer extra for GM to send people their way instead of to Station B who are charging $1/gallon less but haven't paid extra to GM? Really think it'll stop there, when GM can get an extra $1/customer by telling Station A that you're critically low on gas and can't make it to another gas station, so they can gouge you $5/gallon and you have no choice to pay it? Allowing your personal information to be indiscriminately mined and sold is bad for you and this is why.
- Turing_Machine 8y ago
  > Really think it'll stop there, when GM can get an extra $1/customer by telling Station A that you're critically low on gas and can't make it to another gas station, so they can gouge you $5/gallon and you have no choice to pay it? Or maybe the station owner will demand sexual favors and your first-born child, or that you join ISIS, or that you get out of your car and do a strip-tease beside the road. This would last about as long as it took the first customer to notice that the previous customer paid $0.01/gallon less than him, whereupon the gas station owner would get a (well-deserved) online lynching. Not to mention that virtually every gas station I've seen in my life has the price prominently posted on a large display. You think customers wouldn't notice if that were constantly changing? We won't even go into the over-the-top "charging $5.00/gallon more" scenario. Any station that tried that would be out of business within days.
  - slededit 8y ago
    While the amounts he mentioned were extreme, gas stations needing an extra turn or that are a little further up the road generally have to price their gas lower. Its quite possible these gas stations will have a few cents of extra pricing power for the convenience. I'd prefer the dumb maps that do not give my supplier a price advantage even if its a few cents. It adds up significantly over time which is why they'd be willing to pay in the first place.
  - xg15 8y ago
    > This would last about as long as it took the first customer to notice that the previous customer paid $0.01/gallon less than him, whereupon the gas station owner would get a (well-deserved) online lynching. It would cause a lot if online conspiracy theories and moderate outrage if anyone did find out. > Not to mention that virtually every gas station I've seen in my life has the price prominently posted on a large display. If everyone can see the prices of the closest stations on their dash, those displays might vanish because "no-one uses them anyway". > We won't even go into the over-the-top "charging $5.00/gallon more" scenario. Any station that tried that would be out of business within days. Like Uber is out of business becauase of surge pricing? If only one small station is doing it, they might get repercussions. If many stations (or large chains) do it, it might become normalized.
ddingus 8y ago
Daughter drives car for a while... I get in: There is a TCBY just off your route, want a dollar off? LOL I will just watch this mess, content with my easy to service, older, dumb car. The interesting dynamic here will be the features that really help people vs advertizers looking to direct business. Driving newer cars is a lot more busy experience. Looks like it may just get worse. Bummer. I drive older vehicles for the quiet. At night especially. Wonder what people will do when the car makes one offer, the phone another, and the other phone in back, yet another one? I won't be buying any cars new enough, until such time as they are hacked to not do it.
- anticensor 8y ago
  Self driving version: There is TCBY off your route, you have been diverted to see it.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Right?
newnewpdro 8y ago
Just a tiny glimpse of the circus that will be self-driving cars with proprietary software running the in-cabin telescreens in cooperation with the autonomous systems. If you're working on building the stuff to enable this future, please stop.
- expertentipp 8y ago
  but it pays so well.. and in many regions of Europe (...ehem... Germany) it's the only innovation happening
  - pdkl95 8y ago
    Douglas Adams, in HHGttG: > The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus designed to do the work of a man. > The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With". > The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes”
expertentipp 8y ago
How much I enjoy my over 10 years old non drive-by-wire, no in-dash navigation (just buy a 300 EUR navigation with free lifetime map updates), no hybrid, no engine-downsized car. I'll not let it go until the wheels will start to fall off.
- Silhouette 8y ago
  I couldn't agree more. I dread the day when my government decides to force my older car off the road because of something about environmental standards and efficiency not being up to modern standards. It's true that modern standards for the mechanics and driving controls in cars are a significant improvement on what I have. Sadly, modern standards for everything else they bundle in these days seem to be a huge step backwards. I want them about as much as I want a "smart" home and a "smart" phone. It's sad, because I enjoy playing with new technologies and would love to have the benefits of recent advances and devices, but for me the risks and costs in terms of security, privacy and safety are often too high to use a lot of these things. I'm starting to feel like the older relative we all seem to have who doesn't know how to use a computer... (Edit: Fortunately, as you demonstrated with the separate navigation box you mentioned, there are often good alternatives right now that have to compete on merit because they're not built-in, which aren't necessarily as owner-hostile. I just fear the day when the number of us willing to pay a little extra and give up a little convenience to maintain that independence will be too small to sustain the market.)
nerdponx 8y ago
When are we going to elect people who stand up for us? When "voting with your dollar" is impossible, we need to be able to vote with our, y'know, votes. If we can do neither, we need to consider less palatable alternatives.
- oliwarner 8y ago
  An extreme resolution but there are governments out there that proudly stand up for their consumers' rights. The EU has already made this business model a non-starter.
mikestew 8y ago
Good luck monetizing when that transmit antenna wire accidentally jiggles lose. But, like uBlock or PiHole, so few folks will be bothered to go to the effort that it will be generally worth the effort on GM’s part.
hedora 8y ago
I wonder what happens if you cut the lead to the cell antenna, but not the gps antenna. I’d pay for a cell data kill switch in my new car. More practically, though, doesn’t this mean they have to push opt-out updates to any car being driven in California?
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
  If they're using assisted GPS, I would actually expect this to deteriorate the ability to actually locate yourself. Unfortunately.
  - hedora 8y ago
    True, but raw GPS works well enough in cell dead spots on my car, so I probably wouldn’t notice the difference. The other problem is that they’d likely log the GPS track, and upload it all at once if anyone ever re-enabled cell data, which kind of defeats the whole thing. Maybe the switch would have to be for all the radios (even FM, Bluetooth, etc, if yo want to be extra tin foil hatty). Even with that, commercial license plate cameras still would track the car. I’m beginning to think the only solution is legislative (probably via direct democracy, because Silicon Valley corporate lobbyists are too powerful these days...)

68 points by petethomas 8y ago

predictionable 8y ago

How do we bypass the WSJ paywall again?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ardy42 8y ago
http://archive.is/qaMgc http://archive.is/qaMgc

mehrdadn 8y ago

> But many car makers have bigger plans, including using the data to craft targeted in-car advertisements Lo and behold, you're always the product, no matter how many thousands of dollars you're paying.

astura 8y ago

https://outline.com/sv6cJt https://outline.com/sv6cJt

taneq 8y ago

> Later this year, GM also plans to introduce a new feature that can detect when a vehicle’s fuel tank is low and then offer a coupon on the car’s display for a discount at a nearby gas station, said Brian Hoglund, a business development director for GCCX, GM’s connectivity unit. Retailers then pay GM a fee for steering customers their way. And every time someone says "but how does it harm me for advertisers to know everything about me?", THIS is the answer. It's not just "finding things you might like to buy". It's "auctioning you off to vendors based on how badly you need the thing." The market is an information game and if one side knows more than the other, then they have an advantage. Really think it'll stop at helpfully suggesting a nearby gas station, when Station A can just pay $1/customer extra for GM to send people their way instead of to Station B who are charging $1/gallon less but haven't paid extra to GM? Really think it'll stop there, when GM can get an extra $1/customer by telling Station A that you're critically low on gas and can't make it to another gas station, so they can gouge you $5/gallon and you have no choice to pay it? Allowing your personal information to be indiscriminately mined and sold is bad for you and this is why.

Turing_Machine 8y ago
> Really think it'll stop there, when GM can get an extra $1/customer by telling Station A that you're critically low on gas and can't make it to another gas station, so they can gouge you $5/gallon and you have no choice to pay it? Or maybe the station owner will demand sexual favors and your first-born child, or that you join ISIS, or that you get out of your car and do a strip-tease beside the road. This would last about as long as it took the first customer to notice that the previous customer paid $0.01/gallon less than him, whereupon the gas station owner would get a (well-deserved) online lynching. Not to mention that virtually every gas station I've seen in my life has the price prominently posted on a large display. You think customers wouldn't notice if that were constantly changing? We won't even go into the over-the-top "charging $5.00/gallon more" scenario. Any station that tried that would be out of business within days.
- slededit 8y ago
  While the amounts he mentioned were extreme, gas stations needing an extra turn or that are a little further up the road generally have to price their gas lower. Its quite possible these gas stations will have a few cents of extra pricing power for the convenience. I'd prefer the dumb maps that do not give my supplier a price advantage even if its a few cents. It adds up significantly over time which is why they'd be willing to pay in the first place.
- xg15 8y ago
  > This would last about as long as it took the first customer to notice that the previous customer paid $0.01/gallon less than him, whereupon the gas station owner would get a (well-deserved) online lynching. It would cause a lot if online conspiracy theories and moderate outrage if anyone did find out. > Not to mention that virtually every gas station I've seen in my life has the price prominently posted on a large display. If everyone can see the prices of the closest stations on their dash, those displays might vanish because "no-one uses them anyway". > We won't even go into the over-the-top "charging $5.00/gallon more" scenario. Any station that tried that would be out of business within days. Like Uber is out of business becauase of surge pricing? If only one small station is doing it, they might get repercussions. If many stations (or large chains) do it, it might become normalized.

ddingus 8y ago

Daughter drives car for a while... I get in: There is a TCBY just off your route, want a dollar off? LOL I will just watch this mess, content with my easy to service, older, dumb car. The interesting dynamic here will be the features that really help people vs advertizers looking to direct business. Driving newer cars is a lot more busy experience. Looks like it may just get worse. Bummer. I drive older vehicles for the quiet. At night especially. Wonder what people will do when the car makes one offer, the phone another, and the other phone in back, yet another one? I won't be buying any cars new enough, until such time as they are hacked to not do it.

anticensor 8y ago
Self driving version: There is TCBY off your route, you have been diverted to see it.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Right?

newnewpdro 8y ago

Just a tiny glimpse of the circus that will be self-driving cars with proprietary software running the in-cabin telescreens in cooperation with the autonomous systems. If you're working on building the stuff to enable this future, please stop.

expertentipp 8y ago
but it pays so well.. and in many regions of Europe (...ehem... Germany) it's the only innovation happening
- pdkl95 8y ago
  Douglas Adams, in HHGttG: > The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus designed to do the work of a man. > The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With". > The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes”

expertentipp 8y ago

How much I enjoy my over 10 years old non drive-by-wire, no in-dash navigation (just buy a 300 EUR navigation with free lifetime map updates), no hybrid, no engine-downsized car. I'll not let it go until the wheels will start to fall off.

Silhouette 8y ago
I couldn't agree more. I dread the day when my government decides to force my older car off the road because of something about environmental standards and efficiency not being up to modern standards. It's true that modern standards for the mechanics and driving controls in cars are a significant improvement on what I have. Sadly, modern standards for everything else they bundle in these days seem to be a huge step backwards. I want them about as much as I want a "smart" home and a "smart" phone. It's sad, because I enjoy playing with new technologies and would love to have the benefits of recent advances and devices, but for me the risks and costs in terms of security, privacy and safety are often too high to use a lot of these things. I'm starting to feel like the older relative we all seem to have who doesn't know how to use a computer... (Edit: Fortunately, as you demonstrated with the separate navigation box you mentioned, there are often good alternatives right now that have to compete on merit because they're not built-in, which aren't necessarily as owner-hostile. I just fear the day when the number of us willing to pay a little extra and give up a little convenience to maintain that independence will be too small to sustain the market.)

nerdponx 8y ago

When are we going to elect people who stand up for us? When "voting with your dollar" is impossible, we need to be able to vote with our, y'know, votes. If we can do neither, we need to consider less palatable alternatives.

oliwarner 8y ago
An extreme resolution but there are governments out there that proudly stand up for their consumers' rights. The EU has already made this business model a non-starter.

mikestew 8y ago

Good luck monetizing when that transmit antenna wire accidentally jiggles lose. But, like uBlock or PiHole, so few folks will be bothered to go to the effort that it will be generally worth the effort on GM’s part.

hedora 8y ago

I wonder what happens if you cut the lead to the cell antenna, but not the gps antenna. I’d pay for a cell data kill switch in my new car. More practically, though, doesn’t this mean they have to push opt-out updates to any car being driven in California?

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
If they're using assisted GPS, I would actually expect this to deteriorate the ability to actually locate yourself. Unfortunately.
- hedora 8y ago
  True, but raw GPS works well enough in cell dead spots on my car, so I probably wouldn’t notice the difference. The other problem is that they’d likely log the GPS track, and upload it all at once if anyone ever re-enabled cell data, which kind of defeats the whole thing. Maybe the switch would have to be for all the radios (even FM, Bluetooth, etc, if yo want to be extra tin foil hatty). Even with that, commercial license plate cameras still would track the car. I’m beginning to think the only solution is legislative (probably via direct democracy, because Silicon Valley corporate lobbyists are too powerful these days...)