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"My next laptop will probably not be a mac." Yeah, you aren't the only one. They are seriously throwing away all the goodwill and reputation they'd built up ov

"My next laptop will probably not be a mac." Yeah, you aren't the only one. They are seriously throwing away all the goodwill and reputation they'd built up over the past 20 years, over features no one is asking for like the touch bar and a ridiculously short key throw.

beenBoutIT 8y ago
Apple without Steve Jobs is your favorite restaurant with new management. You want it to be the same so you try not to notice that it's gone to shit, but eventually you realize that the guy running the place was what made it so good.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Remember this? https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/
  - ksec 8y ago
    Oh hell yes. They made a mistake, try to fix it, and the problem was gone in the next iteration. We have been suffering from the same MacBook Pro keyboard issues for 3 years, and the latest 2018 just released still has that keyboard problem. And to add insult to injury T2 now causes panic every now and then.
    - beenBoutIT 8y ago
      History will ultimately remember Apple as two distinct entities; Apple With Jobs and Apple After Jobs.
      - radley 8y ago
        Four really: Apple with Jobs (76-85), Apple without (85-97), Apple with (97-11), and Apple after. Each period was very unique.
w1nt3rmu4e 8y ago
Have to pile on here. I have a 2017 and use it mostly with an eternal keyboard and monitors but I am shocked when I use the built in keyboard. It is really bad to type on -- all for what? A few fractions of an inch in thickness? I had a first gen MacBook 12 and was ok with the horrible keyboard given its purpose of maximum portability. But on a desktop replacement / primary machine? What the hell were they thinking? On this keyboard, 50% of the time when I type a single quote I hit the return key. Makes programming comically bad. It's just a couple of steps off typing on a touch screen at this point. (Which, I fear, is their endgame.) Other joys of my 2017 (15, maxed out except for the absurdly expensive second TB of SSD): 1. (Un)plugging external monitors will crash the window server 2. Kernel panics -- usually related to IB in Xcode. 3. Unresponsive power key 4. Fingerprint reader that fails without any feedback 5. Serious hacking required to run external monitors in HiDPI mode 6. No more touch typing for the media keys, escape key I'm professionally tied into the Apple ecosystem to a degree that it would be hard for me to leave, but I'm really unhappy with Apple these days. They seem to live in a fantasy world of unnecessary aesthetic goals and are alienating the small but extremely vocal community that have championed their products.
- willtim 8y ago
  It's anecdotal, but Linux on my ThinkPad gives: - Rock solid stability, uptimes of months (until I reboot to upgrade the kernel). I've never had a kernel panic in over a decade of use. - No problems with WiFi, sleep, printing or monitor hotplugging (dual wide-screen, displayport MST). Linux is tweaked, optimised and hardened by so many people and organisations, it is seriously fast and robust. The various desktop GUIs available have also matured a lot over the last ten years. For any developer of server-side software (which likely runs on Linux), it simply makes more sense to develop on a Linux desktop.
  - nullify88 8y ago
    I use a X1 Carbon 2015 running Fedora 28 (Since I first installed Fedora 22) You need to give Linux distros a few months to become mature enough to run flawlessly on newer hardware. I recall having displayport issues when I installed Fedora 22. Aside from that case, I can't remember the last time I've had issues.
ChristianGeek 8y ago
I’ve been using Macs since 1984. I even made it through the crap the company was producing during Jobs’ first absence (albeit barely). Right now my daily computer (which gets at least 10 hours of use a day) is a maxed out 2014 MBP. I love it...it’s the best laptop I’ve ever used, Windows or Mac. If it were to die today, however, I’d replace it with a 2015 MBP. I’ve been keeping my eye on the Surface too, and if it keeps progressing forward in terms of quality and capability, and Apple keeps on progressing backwards, I’m ready to take the plunge and switch. Microsoft has been making a lot of really smart decisions lately and Apple has been making a lot of stupid ones.
- stevewillows 8y ago
  I'm in the same boat as you, but I've got a late 2013 15". I actually picked up a Toshiba Chromebook 2 to run Gallium (xubuntu) on for when I'm outside of the house. I'm half-paranoid about something happening to this macbook pro. As a graphic designer, I used to be 100% windows -- and even somewhat against the hype of apple products. A friend had an old 2008 macbook pro collecting dust. I figured I'd try out OSX for a time, purely in an effort to fix her laptop. I fell in love with it and picked up the 2013 a few months later. As time goes on, I don't doubt that we'll see the 2015 maintain its resale value.
- gaius 8y ago
  I’ve been keeping my eye on the Surface too You won’t regret Surface, fantastic hardware and W10 is not nearly as bad as the haters say, esp. with WSL now. I’m a switcher from MBP myself and I am very happy with the decision.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    Homebrew/Debian (derived) > Cygwin/Chocolatey/WSL any time of the day. Though I'm not sure about Time Machine. Seems to not work with symlinks or hardlinks or something? Why would it still be this terrible given APFS? That should be able to handle snapshots fairly well? My MBP is luckily the last decent one (MBP 2015) and it has 16 GB DDR3 and 256 GB SSD. However it does have an Intel GPU, and only 2,2 GHz quad core i7. Since I'm on 400 cycles at about 5% battery loss and a few minor but annoying damages on the screen I'm gonna get the latter repaired. Problem is I'm not sure how they got there in the first place. So I'm not sure how to prevent it. And the time to get such fixed is withering away. Tick tock, 2015 was 3 years ago.
some_account 8y ago
I already switched away from Apple to Linux in the last few months, and it's been awakening my passion for computers again. Best desktop environment for people who want a very good looking desktop is Deepin, and the Manjaro Community Edition with Deepin has been rock stable, very fast and very beautiful for me during the last few months I've been using it. Highly recommended. You don't need a MacBook anymore for things to just work and be great looking.
- vivab0rg 8y ago
  Ubuntu Budgie could be just as nice as Deepin, plus it makes sense if you also have Ubuntu on your servers.
- jacobjuul 8y ago
  For me, the problem is that I need a mac for iOS development (and sketch). I know I can rent an OSX machine in the cloud, but I foresee a lot of frustration going that route (plus high cost). I currently own a maxed out 2017 15" model. The control and "H" buttons don't work. So I am using an external keyboard. I could get them replaced, but service will take three weeks (due to high demand) and they have to have the actual laptop the entire time.
balladeer 8y ago
I am of the same opinion. But my reasons are - repairability, cost of parts and service after the warranty ends (in fact cost of extended warranty too).
fatamorgana 8y ago
To be fair, in most cases the consumers don't know what they want. Was anybody asking for a touch screen phone when the first iphone came out ?

beenBoutIT 8y ago

Apple without Steve Jobs is your favorite restaurant with new management. You want it to be the same so you try not to notice that it's gone to shit, but eventually you realize that the guy running the place was what made it so good.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
Remember this? https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/
- ksec 8y ago
  Oh hell yes. They made a mistake, try to fix it, and the problem was gone in the next iteration. We have been suffering from the same MacBook Pro keyboard issues for 3 years, and the latest 2018 just released still has that keyboard problem. And to add insult to injury T2 now causes panic every now and then.
  - beenBoutIT 8y ago
    History will ultimately remember Apple as two distinct entities; Apple With Jobs and Apple After Jobs.
    - radley 8y ago
      Four really: Apple with Jobs (76-85), Apple without (85-97), Apple with (97-11), and Apple after. Each period was very unique.

w1nt3rmu4e 8y ago

Have to pile on here. I have a 2017 and use it mostly with an eternal keyboard and monitors but I am shocked when I use the built in keyboard. It is really bad to type on -- all for what? A few fractions of an inch in thickness? I had a first gen MacBook 12 and was ok with the horrible keyboard given its purpose of maximum portability. But on a desktop replacement / primary machine? What the hell were they thinking? On this keyboard, 50% of the time when I type a single quote I hit the return key. Makes programming comically bad. It's just a couple of steps off typing on a touch screen at this point. (Which, I fear, is their endgame.) Other joys of my 2017 (15, maxed out except for the absurdly expensive second TB of SSD): 1. (Un)plugging external monitors will crash the window server 2. Kernel panics -- usually related to IB in Xcode. 3. Unresponsive power key 4. Fingerprint reader that fails without any feedback 5. Serious hacking required to run external monitors in HiDPI mode 6. No more touch typing for the media keys, escape key I'm professionally tied into the Apple ecosystem to a degree that it would be hard for me to leave, but I'm really unhappy with Apple these days. They seem to live in a fantasy world of unnecessary aesthetic goals and are alienating the small but extremely vocal community that have championed their products.

willtim 8y ago
It's anecdotal, but Linux on my ThinkPad gives: - Rock solid stability, uptimes of months (until I reboot to upgrade the kernel). I've never had a kernel panic in over a decade of use. - No problems with WiFi, sleep, printing or monitor hotplugging (dual wide-screen, displayport MST). Linux is tweaked, optimised and hardened by so many people and organisations, it is seriously fast and robust. The various desktop GUIs available have also matured a lot over the last ten years. For any developer of server-side software (which likely runs on Linux), it simply makes more sense to develop on a Linux desktop.
- nullify88 8y ago
  I use a X1 Carbon 2015 running Fedora 28 (Since I first installed Fedora 22) You need to give Linux distros a few months to become mature enough to run flawlessly on newer hardware. I recall having displayport issues when I installed Fedora 22. Aside from that case, I can't remember the last time I've had issues.

ChristianGeek 8y ago

I’ve been using Macs since 1984. I even made it through the crap the company was producing during Jobs’ first absence (albeit barely). Right now my daily computer (which gets at least 10 hours of use a day) is a maxed out 2014 MBP. I love it...it’s the best laptop I’ve ever used, Windows or Mac. If it were to die today, however, I’d replace it with a 2015 MBP. I’ve been keeping my eye on the Surface too, and if it keeps progressing forward in terms of quality and capability, and Apple keeps on progressing backwards, I’m ready to take the plunge and switch. Microsoft has been making a lot of really smart decisions lately and Apple has been making a lot of stupid ones.

stevewillows 8y ago
I'm in the same boat as you, but I've got a late 2013 15". I actually picked up a Toshiba Chromebook 2 to run Gallium (xubuntu) on for when I'm outside of the house. I'm half-paranoid about something happening to this macbook pro. As a graphic designer, I used to be 100% windows -- and even somewhat against the hype of apple products. A friend had an old 2008 macbook pro collecting dust. I figured I'd try out OSX for a time, purely in an effort to fix her laptop. I fell in love with it and picked up the 2013 a few months later. As time goes on, I don't doubt that we'll see the 2015 maintain its resale value.
gaius 8y ago
I’ve been keeping my eye on the Surface too You won’t regret Surface, fantastic hardware and W10 is not nearly as bad as the haters say, esp. with WSL now. I’m a switcher from MBP myself and I am very happy with the decision.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  Homebrew/Debian (derived) > Cygwin/Chocolatey/WSL any time of the day. Though I'm not sure about Time Machine. Seems to not work with symlinks or hardlinks or something? Why would it still be this terrible given APFS? That should be able to handle snapshots fairly well? My MBP is luckily the last decent one (MBP 2015) and it has 16 GB DDR3 and 256 GB SSD. However it does have an Intel GPU, and only 2,2 GHz quad core i7. Since I'm on 400 cycles at about 5% battery loss and a few minor but annoying damages on the screen I'm gonna get the latter repaired. Problem is I'm not sure how they got there in the first place. So I'm not sure how to prevent it. And the time to get such fixed is withering away. Tick tock, 2015 was 3 years ago.

some_account 8y ago

I already switched away from Apple to Linux in the last few months, and it's been awakening my passion for computers again. Best desktop environment for people who want a very good looking desktop is Deepin, and the Manjaro Community Edition with Deepin has been rock stable, very fast and very beautiful for me during the last few months I've been using it. Highly recommended. You don't need a MacBook anymore for things to just work and be great looking.

vivab0rg 8y ago
Ubuntu Budgie could be just as nice as Deepin, plus it makes sense if you also have Ubuntu on your servers.
jacobjuul 8y ago
For me, the problem is that I need a mac for iOS development (and sketch). I know I can rent an OSX machine in the cloud, but I foresee a lot of frustration going that route (plus high cost). I currently own a maxed out 2017 15" model. The control and "H" buttons don't work. So I am using an external keyboard. I could get them replaced, but service will take three weeks (due to high demand) and they have to have the actual laptop the entire time.

balladeer 8y ago

I am of the same opinion. But my reasons are - repairability, cost of parts and service after the warranty ends (in fact cost of extended warranty too).

fatamorgana 8y ago

To be fair, in most cases the consumers don't know what they want. Was anybody asking for a touch screen phone when the first iphone came out ?