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Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?
- l0b0 8y agoMaybe because most Europeans are happy with a good work/life balance, and don't constantly obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Obviously such obsessives exist, but I bet they are a lot less common than in countries with a, let's say, get big or go home attitude. Also, state funded safety nets means it's less urgent to have $lots saved up to survive the next crisis.
- fit2rule 8y ago>state funded safety nets Ding ding ding: this is the answer: those safety nets are also a cage. Disclaimer: have started many businesses around the world, including the US and Europe. Europeans don't proceed to the glory and glamor of US startups because they have to deal with government bureaucracy, and alas such bureaucracy is contagious. The moment you wade into the grant-getting territory, you become a grant-getter. Grant-getters are anathema to technology-creators and other forms of society-changers.
- Fnoord 8y agoYou're not really defining the safety nets. It isn't as if the USA has exactly none either. Example [1] If you're referring to the safety net that you get government money after you get unemployed, that's to ensure that you don't become homeless or get lured into crime. It has reinforcement to get you back to work ASAP. [1] https://www.ssa.gov/disability/ https://www.ssa.gov/disability/
- fit2rule 8y agoIt also means you don't work as hard to succeed.
- Fnoord 8y agoOr it means you don't get homeless the moment you don't succeed. Those who don't work aren't living in wealth; all they have is basic necessities. The system stimulates people to work. Which, incidentally, is easier when you're not homeless and when you can afford food and toilet paper (which I happen to know you cannot buy with food stamps).
- icebraining 8y agoCan you give a flavor of that extra government bureaucracy you had to deal in Europe vis-a-vis the US? And in which European countries was that?
- fit2rule 8y agoGermany, and Austria. Getting a grant in Austria essentially guarantees that the hunger you need to survive in the tech world today will be quenched by that sweet, sweet, government handout.
- andyroid 8y agoYou are seriously arguing that the threat of starving is how you want to motivate people to work for you? Sorry but I doubt European bureaucracy is what’s holding your companies back.
- fit2rule 8y agoThe threat of starving isn't holding anyone back, and I didn't say anything about the people working for me - however the decadence of having a safety net means fewer real risks are taken, and certainly less responsibility for the basics. It means the people who work for me don't have to work too hard to keep their jobs - after all, the government will take care of them if I have to fire them for under performance. Which happens, quite a lot more in Europe than it ever did in the USA. Americans seem to like to keep their jobs - Europeans couldn't care less.
- detaro 8y agoEuropeans not caring about keeping their jobs, what? That's so far from reality...
- fit2rule 8y agoHardly. The safety net means they don't have to work so hard at keeping the job, because if they lose it: the government will take care of them. This has knock-on effects all over the organisation.. including productivity issues.
- Annatar 8y agoI honestly don't know why you got down-voted for this: I can confirm from first hand experience that everything you wrote is a fact. This place often makes no sense whatsoever in what is considered good or bad.
- fit2rule 8y agoI'm probably being downvoted by folks whose survival depends on that sweet, sweet, government handout. Its okay with me - the point has been made.
- icebraining 8y agoI didn't downvote, but the post is not very informative, at least for someone who doesn't already know what they're talking about, like you. It's not very clear what's the relationship being implied between bureaucracy and grants, which grants are those, or how do they differ between the US vs EU. For reference, I've worked at a couple of EU startups, and we didn't get any grants. It's not like you just get money for incorporating.
- buboard 8y agoI think their point about grant-getters is spot-on. Thousands of companies exist just to apply for EU grants, get them, come up with a half-assed prototype and then quit the project. Unless you have connections in government in which case sometimes you can have a second and third half-assed product. Of course there are also many non-gov-funded startups. However 1) it is demoralizing to see them getting millions in handouts while you struggle to sell a product and 2) they keep many talented employees trapped in deadend-companies.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- sparkling 8y ago> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years [2], not decades. Sometimes it really makes me depressed. Also you seem to overestimate the safety nets. Putting 3-4 months of US paychecks away in a savings account will put you ahead of any safety net in Europe. [1] Yes, i know, cost of living in places like NYC or SF are not comparable to major European cities, but even when factoring higher costs of living, becoming a millionaire seems rather doable. [2] If you don't spend your money lavishly.
- ukoki 8y ago> salaries are unheard in Europe This income exists in the UK for contractors. $150k/year is a day-rate of approximately £500/day if you take four weeks off per year. This is slightly higher than the median but reasonably achievable (more so in London). https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/Contract-IT-Job-Market https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/Contract-IT-Job-Market
- koevet 8y agoSame in Switzerland, for contractors (actually more than 150k/year)
- sparkling 8y agoCare to elaborate? What kind of gigs yield that kind of money and how is taxation for freelancers in Switzerland?
- Annatar 8y agoGigs where people have very specialized knowledge, like SAP consulting, or where they have 20-30 years of system engineering and IT architecting experience. Taxation is low compared to the rest of the world, but since Switzerland is closed off to immigration and currently working on clamping down on it even more with all their might, it's pointless to discuss freelancing there. Which means that freelancers who work there live there, and that in turn means that you get an entire tax bill and have to cash out large sums of money on taxes in one go.
- buboard 8y ago> because most Europeans are happy with a good work/life balance That is the common trope but the truth is there is no other option. There are whole countries which are destined to end up as tourist destinations.
- Annatar 8y agoYou mean like Croatia? They've had 1000 years of servitude and have only begun their 1000 years long dream of being their own masters. They will have to learn how to do that and it will take them a long time, but they are already on the top in the weapons, pharmaceuticals and auto industries ("HS Produkt", "Belupo", "Pliva" and "Rimac") and might someday become a ship building power once again. They won't be just a tourist destination forever.
- buboard 8y agoGreece
- candiodari 8y agoYou can extend that to any place east of Berlin or south of Milan, with the potential exception of Rome.
- BerislavLopac 8y agoGluposti.
- bassman9000 8y agoIs this article satire? Conflating inflated valuations, VC, and tech? I thought Bloomberg was a serious source. https://www.epo.org/news-issues/news/2017/20170307.html https://www.epo.org/news-issues/news/2017/20170307.html Europe's potential in terms of innovation and technology is also highlighted by the number of European patent applications filed relative to a country's population. Switzerland again topped the ranking in 2016, with 892 applications per million inhabitants. Second and third place went to the Netherlands (405) and Sweden (360), followed by Denmark (334) and Finland (331). The first non-European country was again Japan in ninth place (166), which was above the EU average of 122.
- asutekku 8y agoThe problem is not the amount of innovations or technologies created in EU. The point in the article was that many of these innovations are merely regional products and it’s really hard for European companies to make them appeal to the people outside the continent.
- stale2002 8y ago"inflated valuations" sounds an aweful lot like the investor's problem, not mine. If these USA, inflated valuations cause me, as the developer, to receive inflated salaries, I am perfectly happy with that.
- ehudla 8y agoHow many tech startups were acquired by the tech behemoths ?
- jayachdee 8y agoI'm Irish, almost all of my friends work for American companies in Dublin. This article has decided to count the ~100,000 Irish devs in American companies as American and then wonder why European companies aren't as big. Which is doubly funny when you realise that most of the American companies mentioned are "Irish" for most of the world.
- shady-lady 8y ago> This article has decided to count the ~100,000 Irish devs in American companies as American Where are you seeing that?
- ggm 8y ago... yea because the industrial design inherent in ARM holdings or the original iPod or iPhone or Olivetti design or SAP... (Sigh) Why can't Bloomberg do real research?
- dejv 8y agoAlso like half of the all manufacturing equipment, tons of medical/laboratory devices and what not. The only thing that Europe lack behind is home grown ad-fueled consumer startups.
- kazen44 8y agothis is really the invisible giant. Things like machines which manufacture machines for instance. a good friend of mine works at a glass blowing company which makes beer bottles, the machines used to create bottlecaps at an insane rate are apparantly dominated by a german manufacturer. (this factory produces over 15mil bottles a day). producing 15 million bottle caps in a single 24h shift is hard, producing stuff this quickly at suchs a scale is a hard problem to fix.
- FranzFerdiNaN 8y agoHaven't you heard? It's only tech if it's an app for your mobile phone.
- Fnoord 8y agoASML. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding
- jagermo 8y agoMp3 algorithm, Spotify, Opera Browser, Vivaldi Browser, BMW, Audi, Opel, Mercedes...
- anothergoogler 8y agoVivaldi is based on Chromium, not sure it counts as much as the others you listed. Reminded me of an article from a couple days ago: https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2160072/redcore-ceo-admits-100pc-china-developed-browser-built-googles-chrome-says https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2160072/redcore-ceo-admits...
- eloisant 8y agoBecause the best European startup move to US early, and they become US companies. Because they can't find as much funding in Europe as in US.
- LoSboccacc 8y agoNo large founds to sustain aggressive growth, a fragmented market with lot of regulations and tax codes to abide, small pool of high quality developers and high cost of work That’s about it.
- hnisgroupthink 8y agoTyrannical government. Same thing will and is happening here
- carlesfe 8y agoOh, Europe can do tech indeed. The article is spot on: imagine two startups, one in Barcelona and another in Boston, developing a very similar product. The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Yes, there are other factors; work/life balance, heterogeneous markets/languages, collaboration vs competition mindset, etc. But here in Europe we also have workaholics that give 200% to their startup and launch internationally. And without cash injections, which are a by-product of ecosystem maturity, they will always lose against their USA competitors. Disclaimer: am European founder in seed stage
- RBerenguel 8y agoGood luck in your seeding!
- rapsey 8y ago> The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Also which one has a domestic market with a single language of 325 million people.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- BerislavLopac 8y agoWell, at least in the sheer number of native speakers of the language, the first one has a slight advantage. You're right with regards to the domestic market, although my understanding is that various US states often have incompatible legislations.
- fermigier 8y agoNot so sure about the data presented in the article. There are, according to the graphics, "4 startups per million people in Paris". There are 2.2 million habitants in Paris (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris), and we have hundreds if not thousands of startups (source: http://www.techonmap.fr/ http://www.techonmap.fr/). The numbers don't match.
- flipp3r 8y agoSame with Amsterdam, which is <1M people. The building I work in in Amsterdam has literally more startups in it than the article describes.
- Fnoord 8y agoBecause Europe has more strict privacy laws such as GDPR. EDIT: Well, that isn't the sole reason, but it is a reason the gap may become wider. The GDPR is a compromise I -as European- am more than happy with.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- nunobrito 8y agoWe do tech. There are more startups on my city (which is small) than what the article is mentioning as average. The article assumes that "doing tech" needs to be something like a facebook or google and sell customer data like there is no tomorrow. It's a bit different around here, we like it that way.
- johnnyfaehell 8y agoThe thing is, from my experience, there are start ups and lots of them. But the quality of the work would not be considered good and in many case their stuff is nothing but an unstable crud. Their banners may be taking about data and machine learning but all they have is a simple website that struggles with 10 requests per second.
- jlangenauer 8y agoNot sure where you've been looking, but this is not my experience at all here in Berlin. You can't generalise from a few crap startups (which exist everywhere, btw) to the entire ecosystem.
- close04 8y agoThe title is clickbaity, as is the norm these days. The reason it's so blunt and "polarizing" is that Bloomberg is a US publication. You think they'd ever dare publish an article asking "Why can't the US do civil rights?", an arguably more important topic than tech? Europe can do tech but they don't really make it an important target. Also many of the good people in tech choose to go Silicon Valley (which is now ~60% foreigners) so this depletes the pool of EU talent. The bigger SV gets, the harder it is for person in tech to resist the temptation to go, and for local EU startups to find the proper resources. And the EU doesn't yet act like a single body with a unified strategy when it comes to developing the tech sector, unlike the US or China. It's hard to mount an offence against an already established leader when everybody is pulling in another direction.
- blattimwind 8y ago> an article asking "Why can't the US do civil rights?", an arguably more important topic than tech? But the US has the correct kind of free speech which is the only civil right any good American requires.
- Annatar 8y agoSilicon Valley veteran here. Europe does tech, but we Europeans are far more focused on scientific solutions, fintech and sustainability, long term solutions for our continent and the world at large than creating overvalued startups like "Facebook" or "Twitter" whose only sole purpose is to go IPO and generate vast sums of cash for what amounts to little more than a pasttime. We have lots of small startups and most of those are financed with the founders' own money, in stark contrast to venture capital in the States. Silicon Valley has such a concentration because of climate and infrastructure. Climate is mild year round and the weather great. This, coupled with venture capital and plentiful job opportunities draws more qualified people. Unfortunately only a handful of countries in Europe, like Spain and Portugal have that kind of weather, the rest is frigid temperatures during Winters and sweltering heat during Summers. Although Spain has started to pick up momentum in tech startups, it's still at the beginning and the economy there will require at least two more decades to pick up. Then there is Switzerland, a tech startup paradise, but startup companies there are focused on solving scientific problems and fintech. One of the major differences between Silicon Valley and the European mentality is this: we don't have enough venture capitalists and those that we do have aren't the kind that would invest in companies like "Facebook" or ones that don't have a solid business model to begin with. On top of that, the founders don't want to just get rich overnight, they want their company to be sustainable at least until they're 65 and beyond, and they want the decision making power that a startup under venture capitalists wouldn't have. In summary: a difference of mentality, and different goals, since the standard of living in Europe is much higher, focus is on different priorities.
- kwhitefoot 8y agoTrains are tech. Cities that are liveable are also technology. What does "tech" actually mean? Bloomberg seems to mean it to mean "Internet, shopping, and communication related stuff". There is more to life than that.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- phobosdeimos 8y agoDoes it matter? My country's economy is trucking on nicely. And we do tech, ASML for one.
- scoom 8y agoThey picked GDPR instead.
- jlangenauer 8y agoImagine prioritising the privacy of ordinary people over the need for exceptionally wealthy investors to become even wealthier. What a sick society.
- scoom 8y agoGDPR used "privacy" to get passed, but it sure doesn't protect it.
- sbuk 8y agoI dunno; why can't the American press do subtlety, nuance and fact checking?
- avaika 8y agoWhy is it still important? The world borders are becoming thinner and thinner (de facto there are no borders between first world countries at all). The companies (especially huge tech) employ and operate internationally for years. Even though the head quarters might be based in a specific country, it's not fair to call the company American or European.
- synthmeat 8y agoBureaucracy, market heterogeneity, risk-aversion, and brain-drain to places where there's less such limits. Not all is on us to blame, of course. USA has had a huge historical developmental advantage in tech space. From sibling comments, I see there's a lot of content with the way of life in Europe, so I guess there's that too. I don't see it myself.
- blattimwind 8y agoTech (Bloomberg): smartphone apps, funded by VC and ad money. Not Tech (Bloomberg): making software and machines used to build billions of units across hundreds of sectors per year, and also building billions of units across hundreds of sectors per year, developing new t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶o̶l̶o̶g̶i̶e̶s̶ things (since this isn't tech) and spending god-knows-how-many billions on R&D and so on.
- dejv 8y agoSo what is tech? It seems like for author of this article it means highly scalable software startups (prefably consumer) which are highly visible and you have it on your personal devices. On this turf the US is clear leader at least for people living outside of China. But tech is everywhere and there are huge amounts of billion /100s of M dollars companies you never heard off anywhere in (at least developed) world. In my small town (~ 300k of people) there are at least three pure tech companies that were build from nothing to 1B of valuation and I am sure you can point finger anywhere on map and it is going to be same.
- mnm1 8y agoWho cares? Why does this article assume that giant corporations like fb and Google are even desired? For everyone but their founders, they are a cancer to society. Europe's cultural barriers are a net positive, preventing these cancers from growing and spreading. It makes it a better place to live for everyone. It's such an American centric point of view to want big companies, almost always monopolies, to thrive at the expense of everyone else. Europe does tech just fine. Maybe the question is why can't America control its cancerous companies? Now that is an interesting topic.
- no1youknowz 8y agoI'll probably get Uber down voted for this, but this is my experience from the last 2 years in preparing to get a startup of the ground. Here's some relevant data points: 1) I have contacted over 400 service providers in multiple sectors to provide services to the startup. * Yes that's not a typo. 400 companies have been emailed, then called. I don't mind picking up the phone and talking to someone. 2) Of the 12 service providers that were selected, only 1 company is from the UK. All others are from the US. 3) All of the EU companies that were contacted, I later found out were either:- - Lacking in terms of functionality compared to the US competitors. - Had no roadmaps or no visibility of when they would reach parity with US competitors. - Were much more expensive than US competitors. - Many EU companies had no US focus and more focused in EU, ME and Africa. 4) Of the US companies that I selected. I had interacted initially with the EU offices. Being in the UK, their systems always forwarded the contact form to the EU/UK office. The sales individuals located in the EU office were always SUB PAR! - They didn't know their product as well as they could have. - Simply made up bullshit in order to backup their claim that the functionality that I required was not possible. Even though I knew it was. - As soon as they realised that I was a startup, they were not interested in the sales lead. - In some circumstances, I knew the industry, regulatory issues and their competitors better than they did. - One further point. I remember contacting Skrill's London office and then speaking to an Italian woman and her shouting at me with respect to their functionality. She didn't know the product and was telling me that a certain feature was not available. The more I described to her that it was possible. The louder she got. Despite it being on their website. - I have many emails from UK/EU individuals informing me that they can't do [functionality X] because of regulations/etc. However, other companies were able to do it perfectly fine. Again, this boils down to the employees of the company not knowing their product/industry. - I won't mention who said this. It's a well known US service provider to SaaS companies. When I was speaking to a UK sales manager. I outlined what the startup was doing. The sales person informed me that there would be NO WAY that I would be able to get my first 100 users. To quote him: "You won't get 100 users". Needless to say, the conversation didn't last long. 5) What's worse than all this? Every single German company that I have spoken to were not startup friendly in the least. In fact, every single German company would tell me that I had no chance of success and that I should go and do something else. Here's a typical exchange: Me: Hi, I am interested in your product offering and would like to know if [X functionality] is available and what you pricing is. Them: What is your current turnover. Me: I'm a startup. Them: Please come back to us when you are doing 7 figures a year. Good bye! 6) The difference with US companies. - Knew the product inside and out. Knew their competitors and could inform me how they were better than [competitor X]. - In many circumstances. Once I had spoken to the initial sales employee or they had read my email and PDF attachment of the startup. I was immediately forwarded to the Sales VP and they wanted my business. Instead of pitching my startup to the service provider. They were pitching their company to me. - In many circumstances, there was a program to help startups get off the ground. There would always be a requirement to be part of an accelerator or be VC backed. In my case, this was always waived. - A few times, the sales employee commented that this was obviously a "billion dollar" startup and that they wanted to be part of it. That is, be a partner service provider. The more revenue that I generated, the more they would generate as well! - In all cases, they were startup friendly. Being a startup with 0 in revenue and 0 sales and months away from launch. No problem in discussing their product with me. - In some cases, where a service provider could not help. Due to missing functionality or regulatory issue. Would even forward me to a contact in a competitor that could help! - In a couple of times. Would even offer their own development team to build some tech that I mentioned I was having issues with. For FREE! Gratis! Of course, I always declined, but I thought was very nice of them. There's probably more positive items, but I can't think of more right now. The bottom line is. I now only deal with US companies and when I send an email out. I always append the preference to deal with US sales teams. The outlook and behavior of US companies is vastly different than EU companies: - More positive outlook. - More willing to work with startups. - Acknowledge that, the better the client does, the more revenue they will earn. (yes this point is lost with EU companies) Disclaimer: I'm a solo technical founder. I'm bootstrapping the company with just $1,000 (on purpose). I am not getting any FFF funding nor any VC funding as well.
- jondubois 8y agoAs someone who lived and moved around Europe for the past 2 years, I think that Europe can do tech but the problem is that they are not very well placed in terms of marketing. They don't have influence over the global media like US companies do. Maybe that explains why the Blockchain sector is thriving in Europe... It bypasses the typical media funnel that companies nornally have to go through to acquire users.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- blablabla123 8y agoMost highspeed train manufacturers are European, same is true for their deployment. Similar also holds for other „irrelevant“ technologies like Solar Cells. We‘re sourrounded by tech, Smartphones and Laptops are just one piece
- k__ 8y agoMet a bunch of entrepreneurs in Germany. They are either too conservative or too liberal. So they don't do much really new or drown in chaos. But well, being a founder probably needs extreme traits.
- knbknb 8y agoI'm from Europe, and I like the Paul Graham Essay from 2006, http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html , where he claims there are 3 necessary conditions to build a startup ecosystem in any city or region: 1. A large city or metropolitan area with high quality of life according to nerds and their preferences 2. excellent universities or career opportunities, so young gifted people are motivated to move there from 1000s of miles away 3. Capital availability (Venture capital, private equity, unspent cash looking for investment) Most European Cities fail to provide all 3, and even then these conditions are not sufficient to build a successful hightech startup.
- AstralStorm 8y agoGenerally 3 begets 2 - the universities are mostly there yet no good startup scene. Most large cities do 1 right. The thing is, investors around here are either small or risk averse and indeed hiring is harder.
- stunt 8y agoThere are many factors. Culture, Market, Tax system etc. One of the major factors is the environment and building the culture. Many of US tech success companies are founded or driven by European(and Asian) expats. So there is nothing wrong about Europeans themselves. It is rather the environment. That is why Berlin is doing a better job because they could make a better environment comparing to most of the European cities. Europe is not paying enough attention to how they are lacking there, considering how tech is going to play a crucial role in industries and the future economy. Europeans are also really busy with the political mess that US is building around them (ex. Middle East, Russia, Immigrants coming from conflict zones) and for a society that is just recovered after WW, that means not being prepared to accept expats as it used to be in last few decades for Silicon Valley. Therefore they don't have diversity factor which is one of the biggest advantages for Silicon Valley.