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Let's just consider this for a second from a political standpoint. What does Cuba have to gain from sabotaging the improving relations with the United States? T

by MsMowz 8y ago

Let's just consider this for a second from a political standpoint. What does Cuba have to gain from sabotaging the improving relations with the United States? The embargo is still a huge, huge burden for them, and they have no major allies (a la the USSR). Why would the Cuban government do this?

Firerouge 8y ago
I haven't read anything yet that's explicitly implicated the Cuban government. If this was infact a weapon of sorts, it could of been any foreign government which simply decided Cuba was a good testing grounds.
Mediterraneo10 8y ago
From the beginning of this drama, few have been trying to place the blame on Cuba. Instead, it has been suggested that this could be the actions of a third country (like Russia or China) taken within Cuba.
cnasc 8y ago
I don't know that Cuba has been accused of conducting attacks. It's just that this event (whether an attack or not) happened in Cuba.
ptero 8y ago
I agree with your general sentiment, but as a devils advocate this doesn't have to come from Cuban government. Any number of parties either inside (political infighting) or outside Cuba could benefit from this. Low risk if action is found -- sound generator can look like standard acoustic equipment. While the above is pretty far fetched, floor is open for conspiracy theories...
- owenmarshall 8y ago
  cracks knuckles * old cold-war boogeyman * claims of attacks that leave no physical evidence * only reported by government officials If the tables were turned here and the Cubans or Russians were accusing us of a sonic attack we’d be screaming that it’s a disinformation campaign.
  - duxup 8y ago
    >we’d be screaming that it’s a disinformation campaign I think more likely the state department would just deny it and move on.
  - ptero 8y ago
    > If the tables were turned here and the Cubans or Russians were accusing us of a sonic attack we’d be screaming that it’s a disinformation campaign I do not follow Cuban politics (and not much Russian), but Russia nowadays are always accusing USA of some evil -- watch the official 1st channel or read gov't radio transcript: planning an overthrow of their government (via supporting this or that NGO), destabilizing an economy, financing a war and killing Russian citizens (Ukraine, Syria), etc. etc. Much of this is for internal consumption, and generally the reaction in the US from those who can read it and care to is "meh, business as usual". Trying to influence minds, for sure; but this is par for the course for politics.
    - owenmarshall 8y ago
      The only difference seems to be that we don’t have state media - our outlets are just as happy to claim Chinese military exercises are “practice bombing operations” against the US, and that a Russian plot exists to destabilize our democracy and hack our voting machines. Our official sources are happy to demur, as they have around claims of sonic attacks - we are still “investigating” and “analyzing data”. We officially keep the claims at arms length. We’ve figured out that a public-private partnership makes better agitprop.
  - 628C6l0 8y ago
    But is that really as hypocritical as you seem to suggest? After all we are, for lack of a better phrase, the good guys. It's not unprincipled to give the good guys more benefit of the doubt.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - kenmicklas 8y ago
zaat 8y ago
It happened in China and Uzbekistan too. I think there was a report on Russia too but can't find it now. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-sonic-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-son... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uzbekistan-incident-raises-suspicions-of-russian-involvement-in-cuba-attacks/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uzbekistan-incident-raises-susp...
duxup 8y ago
It doesn't have to be Cuba doing it.
marcoperaza 8y ago
In the US government, the Cuban regime has an excellent boogeyman for the squalor its people live in. They have walked back liberalization before. After the collapse of the USSR, which had sent enormous amounts of money to support the Castro regime, Cuba entered a serious economic crisis. Castro instituted a period of market reforms, and there was widespread hope for political opening. But as soon as the economic situation improved sufficiently to keep buying off enough people to run the oppressive apparatus, it was all rolled back. Please don’t confuse the interests of the Cuban people with the interests of the Cuban regime. The latter cares about one thing only: stay in power.
carloscarnero 8y ago
Cuban here (and actually living in Cuba, if that's even important or relevant.) This whole thing was puzzling for me from the get go, as I never thought our government could do something like this. If they wanted to freeze back relations, it would be simpler to just say "F* off!" (and believe me, they can dream up a thousand somewhat-plausible explanations for that decision.) It doesn't make sense from an Intelligence o Intelligence Gathering point of view. They have cheaper and better ways (like... actual people?), so I don't think that this wasn't some kind of (Cuban) intelligence equipment malfunction. Plus, from the reports it seems that the presumed attacks were taking place on diplomatic personnel residences and hotel rooms. In that environment the attackers do not have much control: what if there's an asset there? what if there's a child? But what really makes me to think that this was not a Cuban operation or attack, is that Canadian personnel were also reported to be affected. That's a big huge no-no. Since this whole thing was interesting for me, I have asked several people on their opinions. People from all walks of life and political leanings. Most of them just told me that they did not think it was Cuban behind the attacks, if there were attacks at all. The more cautious just waved off with "We need more information." Not one person, no matter where they stand, thinks we actually did this. (Sorry for my English.)
- agumonkey 8y ago
  thanks a lot for the field report (and your english is fine by me)
- ribble 8y ago
  who says it was the cuban government? could've been any government's agency that had infiltrated cuba.

by MsMowz 8y ago

Firerouge 8y ago

I haven't read anything yet that's explicitly implicated the Cuban government. If this was infact a weapon of sorts, it could of been any foreign government which simply decided Cuba was a good testing grounds.

Mediterraneo10 8y ago

From the beginning of this drama, few have been trying to place the blame on Cuba. Instead, it has been suggested that this could be the actions of a third country (like Russia or China) taken within Cuba.

cnasc 8y ago

I don't know that Cuba has been accused of conducting attacks. It's just that this event (whether an attack or not) happened in Cuba.

ptero 8y ago

I agree with your general sentiment, but as a devils advocate this doesn't have to come from Cuban government. Any number of parties either inside (political infighting) or outside Cuba could benefit from this. Low risk if action is found -- sound generator can look like standard acoustic equipment. While the above is pretty far fetched, floor is open for conspiracy theories...

owenmarshall 8y ago
cracks knuckles * old cold-war boogeyman * claims of attacks that leave no physical evidence * only reported by government officials If the tables were turned here and the Cubans or Russians were accusing us of a sonic attack we’d be screaming that it’s a disinformation campaign.
- duxup 8y ago
  >we’d be screaming that it’s a disinformation campaign I think more likely the state department would just deny it and move on.
- ptero 8y ago
  > If the tables were turned here and the Cubans or Russians were accusing us of a sonic attack we’d be screaming that it’s a disinformation campaign I do not follow Cuban politics (and not much Russian), but Russia nowadays are always accusing USA of some evil -- watch the official 1st channel or read gov't radio transcript: planning an overthrow of their government (via supporting this or that NGO), destabilizing an economy, financing a war and killing Russian citizens (Ukraine, Syria), etc. etc. Much of this is for internal consumption, and generally the reaction in the US from those who can read it and care to is "meh, business as usual". Trying to influence minds, for sure; but this is par for the course for politics.
  - owenmarshall 8y ago
    The only difference seems to be that we don’t have state media - our outlets are just as happy to claim Chinese military exercises are “practice bombing operations” against the US, and that a Russian plot exists to destabilize our democracy and hack our voting machines. Our official sources are happy to demur, as they have around claims of sonic attacks - we are still “investigating” and “analyzing data”. We officially keep the claims at arms length. We’ve figured out that a public-private partnership makes better agitprop.
- 628C6l0 8y ago
  But is that really as hypocritical as you seem to suggest? After all we are, for lack of a better phrase, the good guys. It's not unprincipled to give the good guys more benefit of the doubt.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - kenmicklas 8y ago

zaat 8y ago

It happened in China and Uzbekistan too. I think there was a report on Russia too but can't find it now. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-sonic-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-son... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uzbekistan-incident-raises-suspicions-of-russian-involvement-in-cuba-attacks/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uzbekistan-incident-raises-susp...

duxup 8y ago

It doesn't have to be Cuba doing it.

marcoperaza 8y ago

In the US government, the Cuban regime has an excellent boogeyman for the squalor its people live in. They have walked back liberalization before. After the collapse of the USSR, which had sent enormous amounts of money to support the Castro regime, Cuba entered a serious economic crisis. Castro instituted a period of market reforms, and there was widespread hope for political opening. But as soon as the economic situation improved sufficiently to keep buying off enough people to run the oppressive apparatus, it was all rolled back. Please don’t confuse the interests of the Cuban people with the interests of the Cuban regime. The latter cares about one thing only: stay in power.

carloscarnero 8y ago

Cuban here (and actually living in Cuba, if that's even important or relevant.) This whole thing was puzzling for me from the get go, as I never thought our government could do something like this. If they wanted to freeze back relations, it would be simpler to just say "F* off!" (and believe me, they can dream up a thousand somewhat-plausible explanations for that decision.) It doesn't make sense from an Intelligence o Intelligence Gathering point of view. They have cheaper and better ways (like... actual people?), so I don't think that this wasn't some kind of (Cuban) intelligence equipment malfunction. Plus, from the reports it seems that the presumed attacks were taking place on diplomatic personnel residences and hotel rooms. In that environment the attackers do not have much control: what if there's an asset there? what if there's a child? But what really makes me to think that this was not a Cuban operation or attack, is that Canadian personnel were also reported to be affected. That's a big huge no-no. Since this whole thing was interesting for me, I have asked several people on their opinions. People from all walks of life and political leanings. Most of them just told me that they did not think it was Cuban behind the attacks, if there were attacks at all. The more cautious just waved off with "We need more information." Not one person, no matter where they stand, thinks we actually did this. (Sorry for my English.)

agumonkey 8y ago
thanks a lot for the field report (and your english is fine by me)
ribble 8y ago
who says it was the cuban government? could've been any government's agency that had infiltrated cuba.