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Your last sentence is 100% true: forcing democracy on a country is never going to work. But claiming that democracy doesn't suit all populations is something I

by Cyph0n 8y ago

Your last sentence is 100% true: forcing democracy on a country is never going to work. But claiming that democracy doesn't suit all populations is something I do not agree with. Democracy is the only form of government where (in practice) the people have a say in how their country is run.

azinman2 8y ago
But how can you say that’s ideal for all? And that’s even suggesting that the mechanisms underlying keep that going for real and not just in name. America is losing is democracy as the money in politics is determining policy more than the constituents voting [1]. China, meanwhile, is vastly expanding its empire and economy under totalitarian control that’s lifting millions out of poverty [2]. Other countries have populations that want clerics or other religious folks at top (e.g. Iran), or tend to have a history of authoritarian rule and a population that respects that. There are many different forms, and I find it to be cultural imperialism to suggest there is an ultimate form of government for all people. That is coming from your own values, which is due to where you were raised and the larger social norms.... not some commandments from the heavens that dictate what it must be. Democracy can be great (in theory), but it’s not the only way. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China
- repolfx 8y ago
  America is losing is democracy as the money in politics is determining policy more than the constituents voting And yet American's current president was elected despite him being out-spent 2:1 by Hillary Clinton. In the UK Leave won despite being outgunned and outspent by Remain. In fact here is a study that claims campaign spending during general elections has essentially no impact whatsoever. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/gsb-cmis/gsb-cmis-download-auth/442076 https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/gsb-cmis/gsb-cmis-download-auth... China was dirt poor because of its long, unbroken history of dictatorship. It's still poor today, although given the fraudulent nature of many Chinese statistics it's hard to know how poor. But the fact that the PRC appears to have learned a few lessons by copying the success of more democratic capitalist nations, is in no way a vindication of dictatorship: there are still so many lessons for China to learn. Finally, the "cultural imperialism" line. I wonder if you actually are Chinese, to be using that line, because it's one the PRC pushes constantly. The idea that dictatorship and democracy are two equally valid ways to run a country can be easily disproven by just looking at how many people mourn the passing of dictatorships when they fall (not many), or their success rates in various metrics. Democracy is clearly a much better way to run things.

by Cyph0n 8y ago

azinman2 8y ago

But how can you say that’s ideal for all? And that’s even suggesting that the mechanisms underlying keep that going for real and not just in name. America is losing is democracy as the money in politics is determining policy more than the constituents voting [1]. China, meanwhile, is vastly expanding its empire and economy under totalitarian control that’s lifting millions out of poverty [2]. Other countries have populations that want clerics or other religious folks at top (e.g. Iran), or tend to have a history of authoritarian rule and a population that respects that. There are many different forms, and I find it to be cultural imperialism to suggest there is an ultimate form of government for all people. That is coming from your own values, which is due to where you were raised and the larger social norms.... not some commandments from the heavens that dictate what it must be. Democracy can be great (in theory), but it’s not the only way. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China

repolfx 8y ago
America is losing is democracy as the money in politics is determining policy more than the constituents voting And yet American's current president was elected despite him being out-spent 2:1 by Hillary Clinton. In the UK Leave won despite being outgunned and outspent by Remain. In fact here is a study that claims campaign spending during general elections has essentially no impact whatsoever. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/gsb-cmis/gsb-cmis-download-auth/442076 https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/gsb-cmis/gsb-cmis-download-auth... China was dirt poor because of its long, unbroken history of dictatorship. It's still poor today, although given the fraudulent nature of many Chinese statistics it's hard to know how poor. But the fact that the PRC appears to have learned a few lessons by copying the success of more democratic capitalist nations, is in no way a vindication of dictatorship: there are still so many lessons for China to learn. Finally, the "cultural imperialism" line. I wonder if you actually are Chinese, to be using that line, because it's one the PRC pushes constantly. The idea that dictatorship and democracy are two equally valid ways to run a country can be easily disproven by just looking at how many people mourn the passing of dictatorships when they fall (not many), or their success rates in various metrics. Democracy is clearly a much better way to run things.