4 ms·

"Indefinite leave to remain" sounds like some almost Orwellian concoction of meaninglessness to me. How exactly do you get from "permission to stay in the coun

"Indefinite leave to remain" sounds like some almost Orwellian concoction of meaninglessness to me. How exactly do you get from "permission to stay in the country" (aha, it means one has the permission to stay in the country) to "indefinite leave to remain" (uhm... to remain here, I need to leave indefinitely?)

avar 8y ago
This is just what the UK calls permanent residency: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residency
- gsnedders 8y ago
  And admission to the country on a temporary basis is done by granting leave to remain (v. indefinite leave to remain).
ksdale 8y ago
"Leave" in this instance means "permission" rather than "exit"
vidarh 8y ago
"leave" as a noun that means roughly "permission" and the verb form of "leave" to mean "depart" both comes from Old English words (the noun form from "leafe", the verb form from "læfan") that has meanings closer to the noun form ("permission"), but the meaning of the noun form is older, as the verb form first took on the modern meaning ca. 1200.
jccooper 8y ago
You do know that's "leave" as a noun, meaning "permission", right? It's a bit formal, but this is a government office we're talking about.
Rexxar 8y ago
Meta comment: "blattimwind" comment is grey at the moment. What is the point to down vote someone that has just misunderstood an arguably ambiguous expression ?
- nkurz 8y ago
  In addition to providing feedback to author of a comment, downvotes also establish the order of comments on the page. If a comment is based on a simple misunderstanding, it's unlikely to result in productive conversation, and thus it may be a benefit to the group to deemphasize that comment to encourage others to focus their attention elsewhere.
BjoernKW 8y ago
“Leave” is a noun in this case and indeed a synonym of “permission”. I suppose it can be confusing due to being a homonym to the verb “to leave” but it’s a rather common legal term (see AWOL, for instance). English, legal English in particular, is rife with apparent inconsistencies like this one. Because of its Anglo-Saxon roots and conquests by both the Danes and the Normans, who asserted their power in part through language, there are many concepts in English for which there are both words of Germanic and Latin, as well as French origin.
xaranke 8y ago
Can you lose indefinite leave to remain like you can lose permanent residency in US/Canada if you don't live there for a certain period?
- vidarh 8y ago
  Yes, you can. If you want a right to return at any time you do need to go on to apply for citizenship.

avar 8y ago

This is just what the UK calls permanent residency: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residency

gsnedders 8y ago
And admission to the country on a temporary basis is done by granting leave to remain (v. indefinite leave to remain).

ksdale 8y ago

"Leave" in this instance means "permission" rather than "exit"

vidarh 8y ago

"leave" as a noun that means roughly "permission" and the verb form of "leave" to mean "depart" both comes from Old English words (the noun form from "leafe", the verb form from "læfan") that has meanings closer to the noun form ("permission"), but the meaning of the noun form is older, as the verb form first took on the modern meaning ca. 1200.

jccooper 8y ago

You do know that's "leave" as a noun, meaning "permission", right? It's a bit formal, but this is a government office we're talking about.

Rexxar 8y ago

Meta comment: "blattimwind" comment is grey at the moment. What is the point to down vote someone that has just misunderstood an arguably ambiguous expression ?

nkurz 8y ago
In addition to providing feedback to author of a comment, downvotes also establish the order of comments on the page. If a comment is based on a simple misunderstanding, it's unlikely to result in productive conversation, and thus it may be a benefit to the group to deemphasize that comment to encourage others to focus their attention elsewhere.

BjoernKW 8y ago

“Leave” is a noun in this case and indeed a synonym of “permission”. I suppose it can be confusing due to being a homonym to the verb “to leave” but it’s a rather common legal term (see AWOL, for instance). English, legal English in particular, is rife with apparent inconsistencies like this one. Because of its Anglo-Saxon roots and conquests by both the Danes and the Normans, who asserted their power in part through language, there are many concepts in English for which there are both words of Germanic and Latin, as well as French origin.

xaranke 8y ago

Can you lose indefinite leave to remain like you can lose permanent residency in US/Canada if you don't live there for a certain period?

vidarh 8y ago
Yes, you can. If you want a right to return at any time you do need to go on to apply for citizenship.