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I debated whether to say anything or not because this seems zero-sum and the potential for downside is huge. Yet, here I am at 4:30am, in Canada, being opiniona

I debated whether to say anything or not because this seems zero-sum and the potential for downside is huge. Yet, here I am at 4:30am, in Canada, being opinionated about a problem that I am far-removed from. 20 years ago, I was a 20y/o radical activist. I spent a significant amount of my time, energy and money participating in street-level activist organizing - all while holding down a job as a software developer by day. I have protested the KKK (the Ohio police put us in a big cage while robed Klansmen hung out with a PA on the courthouse steps). I have personally been involved with shutting down white power skinhead concerts, which often involved physical confrontation. I wasn't "in Seattle" but I was "in Washington", for those of you old enough or inclined to catch the reference. I've held placards at Free Mumia rallies. I almost got arrested for jabbing Fred Phelps (the God Hates Fags asshole) with an umbrella. I offer this - if you're willing to trust me - not to brag or signal virtue, but to offer some context when I say that holy fuck the language that they use in their call-to-arms manifesto is irritating to me. Maybe it's true, what they say about getting old making you conservative. Maybe this post is giving me an existential crisis. And yet, I don't think so. What I actually think is that perhaps East Bay food activists are just guileless in their messaging and are completely tone-deaf to how incredibly elitist that this kind of intentionally polarizing propaganda actually sounds to anyone who might not shake their fist at the concept of capitalism still existing in the bathroom mirror every morning. Ranting about how a startup is stealing your thunder / community groups because they are gasp effective is the literal definition of sour grapes. It has nothing to do with capitalism, which is true regardless of how many comments you delete. Seriously, phatbeats: when did you get so scared to innovate? You don't have to do it in a capitalist framework, but you have to get creative and try new things or you won't have a legitimate argument to make to 99.9% of the population. Even Canadians who are moved to tears by Bernie Sanders find your tone to be grating. I want so badly to support people who spend their energy making the world better for people. Maybe these Imperfect Produce folks really do have blood boys and drink the tears of orphans. But my knee-jerk reaction to your post, as life-long self-identified progressive, is to cheer for them. That should not be what's happening, and it's not just because I got old and sold out. Meta: I am genuinely impressed at how civil this discussion is. We HN commenters often get a bad rap. We often++ deserve it, but today, we can have nice things.

calhoun137 8y ago
Well said. I think the major problem here is not that PhatBeets is being out-competed by a more well funded company. The problem is that there is enough food in the world to feed everyone in the world and more, but because of economic inequality there are many people who cannot afford to put enough food on the table for them or their kids. It's not Imperfect Produce's fault that the world is so fucked up, and I love the mission of PhatBeet's. My take away is that if I was in PhatBeet's shoes I would be incredibly frustrated and would feel very powerless and might make a blog post with similar hyperbolic language lashing out at the easiest target I could find in a desperate effort to save everything I had been working so hard on for so long by any means necessary. If I were in Imperfect Produce's shoes I would feel like this ire has been misdirected at me when the real problem lies with extremely complex and difficult problems which exist in general in our society.
CodeWriter23 8y ago
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Calling themselves “PhatBeets” though a clever play on words, does little to describe their mission and implant a memory in viewers. They now have to compete with a startup, they need to be kick ass marketers themselves. Why just surrender the food supply that Imperfect is acquiring? Get out there and get some of that for the PB programs. Corporations have philanthropy programs, you just need to talk to different parts of the company. Expanding beyond taking supply from farms owned by people of color seems like a logical step to increase the supply in their system. Learn all that stuff and then do some training among other programs that are suffering. Maybe all of my ideas suck and would fail. My point is I didn’t hear one word about what they’re going to do about the situation they find themselves in. They’re just whining that their business model has been disrupted. And the key thing about their messaging. They’re not building themselves up, they’re tearing someone else’s thing down. That’s never a successful strategy. Though I am thankful for the reveal about Imperfect (who are greedy assholes)...I think hey would have done a lot better shopping this story to SF Gate or SacBee. And then using those stories as a touchstone for their new launch of how they’re going to overcome this issue.
- peteforde 8y ago
  Exactly this: it reminds me of how the ACLU joined YC to learn to think and act more like a startup. The ugly truth is that perhaps the most real problem these folks have is the need to decide whether they are prioritizing fighting capitalism or feeding poor people. It's quite likely that they cannot effectively do both at the same time, but would benefit from focused priorities.

calhoun137 8y ago

Well said. I think the major problem here is not that PhatBeets is being out-competed by a more well funded company. The problem is that there is enough food in the world to feed everyone in the world and more, but because of economic inequality there are many people who cannot afford to put enough food on the table for them or their kids. It's not Imperfect Produce's fault that the world is so fucked up, and I love the mission of PhatBeet's. My take away is that if I was in PhatBeet's shoes I would be incredibly frustrated and would feel very powerless and might make a blog post with similar hyperbolic language lashing out at the easiest target I could find in a desperate effort to save everything I had been working so hard on for so long by any means necessary. If I were in Imperfect Produce's shoes I would feel like this ire has been misdirected at me when the real problem lies with extremely complex and difficult problems which exist in general in our society.

CodeWriter23 8y ago

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Calling themselves “PhatBeets” though a clever play on words, does little to describe their mission and implant a memory in viewers. They now have to compete with a startup, they need to be kick ass marketers themselves. Why just surrender the food supply that Imperfect is acquiring? Get out there and get some of that for the PB programs. Corporations have philanthropy programs, you just need to talk to different parts of the company. Expanding beyond taking supply from farms owned by people of color seems like a logical step to increase the supply in their system. Learn all that stuff and then do some training among other programs that are suffering. Maybe all of my ideas suck and would fail. My point is I didn’t hear one word about what they’re going to do about the situation they find themselves in. They’re just whining that their business model has been disrupted. And the key thing about their messaging. They’re not building themselves up, they’re tearing someone else’s thing down. That’s never a successful strategy. Though I am thankful for the reveal about Imperfect (who are greedy assholes)...I think hey would have done a lot better shopping this story to SF Gate or SacBee. And then using those stories as a touchstone for their new launch of how they’re going to overcome this issue.

peteforde 8y ago
Exactly this: it reminds me of how the ACLU joined YC to learn to think and act more like a startup. The ugly truth is that perhaps the most real problem these folks have is the need to decide whether they are prioritizing fighting capitalism or feeding poor people. It's quite likely that they cannot effectively do both at the same time, but would benefit from focused priorities.