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Exhibit: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/07/world/asia/islamic-state-tajikistan-bike-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/07/world/asia/islamic-state-...

by fipple 8y ago

coding123 8y ago
That's not exactly the us Mexico border.
bacon_waffle 8y ago
What motivation would the GP's hypothetical smuggler have, to cause harm to a couple backpackers? I can imagine a person in ISIS might be motivated to harm a couple Americans, but am not seeing the connection here.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  Keep them from snitching/calling border patrol?
  - waterphone 8y ago
    I live 30 miles from the Mexico border along multiple heavily used smuggling routes. I hike and backpack frequently in mountains used by those smugglers and have encountered groups of smugglers many times over the last 7+ years. I have never seen them armed, nor have I ever felt threatened by them. In almost every encounter, they get off the trail and move away before we get close, or if they get startled and there's no time to really do that, they just sort of keep their heads down and pass quickly. Everyone I know who hikes in the region, including a former Border Patrol agent who worked this area for 6+ years (and never saw an armed smuggler), has had a similar experience. Edit: There are some areas along the border where smugglers are reported to be armed more frequently, but this is almost exclusively in areas where two cartels compete for smuggling routes and their weapons are carried to defend against the other cartels, not to use against civilians or law enforcement. They don't want to get caught with weapons in the U.S., as that significantly increases their legal exposure vs. just bales of marijuana.
    - UncleEntity 8y ago
      Yeah, it's like Phoenix "the kidnapping capital". Mostly just cartel members kidnapping other cartel members until they give up the drugs where your common citizen doesn't ever have to worry about it. There was a story a while back where a girl got snatched (for leverage to get the drugs her father was sitting on) and when the kidnappers figured out they got the intended victim's friend instead they just let her go with a "umm, yeah, our bad". Not to discount the issue, though. There are cases where the human smugglers keep people hostage until the families come up with extra money and/or sell them into slavery which is definitely no bueno.
- RaceWon 8y ago
  I street raced in the Bronx and NYC during the mid to late 70's: packs of wild dogs roamed the streets, burned out buildings as far as the eye could see, and every drug known to Man was sold openly. Back then it had the highest murder rate per capita in the country. I lived through it... but I was lucky I was never shot--came real close from a Crip one night after I waxed his ass, but he didn't fire the gun he had pointed at my face, sheer luck that. Criminals kill people just because they can. That's a fact. You probably never spent enough time alone in a dangerous place frequented by dangerous people.
  - arakobama 8y ago
    Boy thats an exciting story, and written from the perspective of such an interesting character! My favorite part of the story is when the protagonist met the gang member. Some notes: crips didn't really exist in nyc until about 20 years ago, so it might be more believable if you changed the gang member's affiliation (Latin Kings maybe? I think they were around then). Also, no one says "waxed his ass", it makes you sound super corny. Keep at it though, eventually you'll nail that hard-boiled detective thing you're going for :)
    - RaceWon 8y ago
      I know, you're right; it was complete BullShit, and the reason he didn't kill me Was Not because I matter of Factly told him "I don't give a fuck" when he screamed "I'm gonna kill you" while pointing make believe gun at me. But whatever... you're the big expert on my life (and phrases racers say and the timeline of the arrival of gangs in NYC,) and have certainly mixed with more dangerous people than I have. ;) And yep, for sure nobody ever got shot for no real fucking reason in the city back then, nor in Mexico nowadays. Crime is made up by Fox News.. and gangs--they don't exist.
  - bacon_waffle 8y ago
    > Criminals kill people just because they can. That's a fact. If it is a fact, I don't think it's a fact that is supported by your anecdote. You removed the hair from this guy's butt! While I don't think your perhaps uninvited waxing was a good justification for a shooting, it's just as disconnected from the situation we were discussing as the ISIS example.
- hackermailman 8y ago
  Note they took precautions to set up camp at dusk far into the bush away from trails and didn't use a light in their tent.
dzdt 8y ago
Downvoted : link is about ISIS which is in no way a relevant comparison.
- fipple 8y ago
  It’s relevant to people who think that the world is basically a safe place. It isn’t — that’s an illusion held by people in particularly safe countries. It’s an illusion that people in say, Yemen, rarely hold.

Exhibit: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/07/world/asia/islamic-state-tajikistan-bike-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/07/world/asia/islamic-state-...

by fipple 8y ago

Exhibit: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/07/world/asia/islamic-state-tajikistan-bike-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/07/world/asia/islamic-state-...

coding123 8y ago

That's not exactly the us Mexico border.

bacon_waffle 8y ago

What motivation would the GP's hypothetical smuggler have, to cause harm to a couple backpackers? I can imagine a person in ISIS might be motivated to harm a couple Americans, but am not seeing the connection here.

kalleboo 8y ago
Keep them from snitching/calling border patrol?
- waterphone 8y ago
  I live 30 miles from the Mexico border along multiple heavily used smuggling routes. I hike and backpack frequently in mountains used by those smugglers and have encountered groups of smugglers many times over the last 7+ years. I have never seen them armed, nor have I ever felt threatened by them. In almost every encounter, they get off the trail and move away before we get close, or if they get startled and there's no time to really do that, they just sort of keep their heads down and pass quickly. Everyone I know who hikes in the region, including a former Border Patrol agent who worked this area for 6+ years (and never saw an armed smuggler), has had a similar experience. Edit: There are some areas along the border where smugglers are reported to be armed more frequently, but this is almost exclusively in areas where two cartels compete for smuggling routes and their weapons are carried to defend against the other cartels, not to use against civilians or law enforcement. They don't want to get caught with weapons in the U.S., as that significantly increases their legal exposure vs. just bales of marijuana.
  - UncleEntity 8y ago
    Yeah, it's like Phoenix "the kidnapping capital". Mostly just cartel members kidnapping other cartel members until they give up the drugs where your common citizen doesn't ever have to worry about it. There was a story a while back where a girl got snatched (for leverage to get the drugs her father was sitting on) and when the kidnappers figured out they got the intended victim's friend instead they just let her go with a "umm, yeah, our bad". Not to discount the issue, though. There are cases where the human smugglers keep people hostage until the families come up with extra money and/or sell them into slavery which is definitely no bueno.
RaceWon 8y ago
I street raced in the Bronx and NYC during the mid to late 70's: packs of wild dogs roamed the streets, burned out buildings as far as the eye could see, and every drug known to Man was sold openly. Back then it had the highest murder rate per capita in the country. I lived through it... but I was lucky I was never shot--came real close from a Crip one night after I waxed his ass, but he didn't fire the gun he had pointed at my face, sheer luck that. Criminals kill people just because they can. That's a fact. You probably never spent enough time alone in a dangerous place frequented by dangerous people.
- arakobama 8y ago
  Boy thats an exciting story, and written from the perspective of such an interesting character! My favorite part of the story is when the protagonist met the gang member. Some notes: crips didn't really exist in nyc until about 20 years ago, so it might be more believable if you changed the gang member's affiliation (Latin Kings maybe? I think they were around then). Also, no one says "waxed his ass", it makes you sound super corny. Keep at it though, eventually you'll nail that hard-boiled detective thing you're going for :)
  - RaceWon 8y ago
    I know, you're right; it was complete BullShit, and the reason he didn't kill me Was Not because I matter of Factly told him "I don't give a fuck" when he screamed "I'm gonna kill you" while pointing make believe gun at me. But whatever... you're the big expert on my life (and phrases racers say and the timeline of the arrival of gangs in NYC,) and have certainly mixed with more dangerous people than I have. ;) And yep, for sure nobody ever got shot for no real fucking reason in the city back then, nor in Mexico nowadays. Crime is made up by Fox News.. and gangs--they don't exist.
- bacon_waffle 8y ago
  > Criminals kill people just because they can. That's a fact. If it is a fact, I don't think it's a fact that is supported by your anecdote. You removed the hair from this guy's butt! While I don't think your perhaps uninvited waxing was a good justification for a shooting, it's just as disconnected from the situation we were discussing as the ISIS example.
hackermailman 8y ago
Note they took precautions to set up camp at dusk far into the bush away from trails and didn't use a light in their tent.

dzdt 8y ago

Downvoted : link is about ISIS which is in no way a relevant comparison.

fipple 8y ago
It’s relevant to people who think that the world is basically a safe place. It isn’t — that’s an illusion held by people in particularly safe countries. It’s an illusion that people in say, Yemen, rarely hold.