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"If an accused man died before the time of his duel, his corpse would be carried to the appointed place. In fact, there was at least one case of a dead man winn

"If an accused man died before the time of his duel, his corpse would be carried to the appointed place. In fact, there was at least one case of a dead man winning his duel: His body was too heavy for his appointment to carry from the field of battle, so the corpse was declared the victor." The source for this is interesting - the old English it quotes is fascinating, though rather unintelligible: https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25526750.pdf https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25526750.pdf

Nadya 8y ago
>alle the condyscyons of thys foule conflycte I'm almost positive this is "All the conditions of this foul conflict." which also fits with the passage knowing that "y" = "i" and that the silent "e" was present in far more words than it is present in today. "Translating" in that way tends to make more sense of old English.
- wallstquant 8y ago
  But why wasn’t the “th” in that sentence a letter thorn? þ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
  - GW150914 8y ago
    That substitution was actually a result of printing text, and limiting the number of characters used. In the 13th century Scotland this was all going to be written by hand, so y was still an “i” or a “u” and thorn would have been its own character; uppercase þ, lowercase ð. For an earlier example of y as a u, and thorns all over the place, try some of this intermediate Saxon circa 9th century http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/a02_05.htm http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/a02_05.htm Feala ic on þam beorge gebiden hæbbe wraðra wyrda. Geseah ic weruda god þearle þenian. þystro hæfdon bewrigen mid wolcnum wealdendes hræw, scirne sciman, sceadu forðeode, wann under wolcnum. Weop eal gesceaft, cwiðdon cyninges fyll. Crist wæs on rood. Amusingly, G’s at the start of a word are used like Y’s are used today, Y’s are U’s, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
    - nordsieck 8y ago
      > thorn would have been its own character; uppercase þ, lowercase ð I think you've actually got uppercase thorn and lowercase eth.
      - Symbiote 8y ago
        That's lowercase of both. Thorn: Þ, þ (as in "thick") Eth: Ð, ð (as in "the")
mirimir 8y ago
This doesn't actually point to a PDF. But rather a webpage, which shows only the first of three pages. See instead https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25526750.pdf https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25526750...
GW150914 8y ago
This is my best, imperfect, translation. “It might fall so [come to pass] that the appealer dies before the day. His legal surety are bound under great pains, comes and enters his dead body within the barriers to free them of their duty...” It then goes on to say that if the defender enters the “arena” (they’re calling it a barrier) and finds the prover dead, “and he can not slay a slain man, and he himself is not yet purged of the crime,” of which he is accused, then his only recourse is to carry the dead body outside of the field of honor before the end of the day. It also explains that the friends of the dead man can possibly appoint a champion for the dead guy, if the judge will allow it. The next paragraph explains that he’s heard once, “that when the dead man was laid within the barriers he was so heavy that the other man was not strong enough to put him out of the barriers,” before the sun set. So the friends of the dead man asked the judge for a ruling, and the judge found in favor of the corpse, upholding his accusation against the defendant! “And some say that this living man while he was casting the dead man out of the barriers he fell backward on his back and the dead man on his breast, and could not [get rid of him] until the day ended. And so be the law that he was judged of the crime...” and so on. Weird, wild stuff.

Nadya 8y ago

>alle the condyscyons of thys foule conflycte I'm almost positive this is "All the conditions of this foul conflict." which also fits with the passage knowing that "y" = "i" and that the silent "e" was present in far more words than it is present in today. "Translating" in that way tends to make more sense of old English.

wallstquant 8y ago
But why wasn’t the “th” in that sentence a letter thorn? þ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
- GW150914 8y ago
  That substitution was actually a result of printing text, and limiting the number of characters used. In the 13th century Scotland this was all going to be written by hand, so y was still an “i” or a “u” and thorn would have been its own character; uppercase þ, lowercase ð. For an earlier example of y as a u, and thorns all over the place, try some of this intermediate Saxon circa 9th century http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/a02_05.htm http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/a02_05.htm Feala ic on þam beorge gebiden hæbbe wraðra wyrda. Geseah ic weruda god þearle þenian. þystro hæfdon bewrigen mid wolcnum wealdendes hræw, scirne sciman, sceadu forðeode, wann under wolcnum. Weop eal gesceaft, cwiðdon cyninges fyll. Crist wæs on rood. Amusingly, G’s at the start of a word are used like Y’s are used today, Y’s are U’s, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
  - nordsieck 8y ago
    > thorn would have been its own character; uppercase þ, lowercase ð I think you've actually got uppercase thorn and lowercase eth.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      That's lowercase of both. Thorn: Þ, þ (as in "thick") Eth: Ð, ð (as in "the")

mirimir 8y ago

This doesn't actually point to a PDF. But rather a webpage, which shows only the first of three pages. See instead https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25526750.pdf https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25526750...

GW150914 8y ago

This is my best, imperfect, translation. “It might fall so [come to pass] that the appealer dies before the day. His legal surety are bound under great pains, comes and enters his dead body within the barriers to free them of their duty...” It then goes on to say that if the defender enters the “arena” (they’re calling it a barrier) and finds the prover dead, “and he can not slay a slain man, and he himself is not yet purged of the crime,” of which he is accused, then his only recourse is to carry the dead body outside of the field of honor before the end of the day. It also explains that the friends of the dead man can possibly appoint a champion for the dead guy, if the judge will allow it. The next paragraph explains that he’s heard once, “that when the dead man was laid within the barriers he was so heavy that the other man was not strong enough to put him out of the barriers,” before the sun set. So the friends of the dead man asked the judge for a ruling, and the judge found in favor of the corpse, upholding his accusation against the defendant! “And some say that this living man while he was casting the dead man out of the barriers he fell backward on his back and the dead man on his breast, and could not [get rid of him] until the day ended. And so be the law that he was judged of the crime...” and so on. Weird, wild stuff.