4 ms·

Is it a fact that X is "smaller" than Wayland, and more resource efficient? X was designed with far more ambitious goals than Wayland, so it's not a foregone c

Is it a fact that X is "smaller" than Wayland, and more resource efficient? X was designed with far more ambitious goals than Wayland, so it's not a foregone conclusion that it's "smaller" (implying cheaper) just because it's older.

emersion 8y ago
>Is it a fact that X is "smaller" than Wayland, and more resource efficient? This statement doesn't really make sense. Wayland is just a protocol, and you can build bloated compositors on top of it -- just like you can build really tiny compositors [1]. xorg-xserver on the other hand will always have the same level of "bloat". >X was designed with far more ambitious goals than Wayland This is hard to say. Wayland has been designed to be flexible enough to allow for a clean base that can be used in mobile UIs, IVIs (e.g. plane UIs), VR and so on (without hacks). [1]: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/ae4d1cdcca97ffeb2c35f0878d75dc17 https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/ae4d1cdcca97ffeb2c35f0878d7...
- dunpeal 8y ago
  > Wayland is just a protocol If we're splitting hairs here: X (i.e. the X11 Window System) is also "just a protocol".
  - emersion 8y ago
    Sure, but then it's quite difficult to say that one is "more resource efficient" than the other. Only implementations can be compared. And in fact, when you e.g. open Gedit, hundreds of messages are exchanged on X11 (getting/registering atoms, changing window properties, etc). Wayland is much more efficient in that regard.
    - dunpeal 8y ago
      > Wayland is much more efficient in that regard. Which is what I implied in my original comment... Of course, the resources are ultimately consumed by implementations, not protocols. But it helps when the protocols are efficient.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
In the sense that I first used X on Linux on a 486 in the early/mid 90's. It was snappy then and snappy now. Also I like being able to minimize crashed windows, something other major OSs haven't done.
- dcbadacd 8y ago
  But screen tearing is a plague on so much different hardware and multi-monitor, high-dpi, FreeSync, HDR, high-gamut (pick any combination of these things) really do not want to work perfectly with X. This is not to say Wayland is good, X Forwarding is an awesome feature and X runs probably can now run on a literally toaster.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    I'm using it with two 4k monitors now, no problem, and no screen tearing. Hi-color might be somewhat compelling, though I write text files for a living. Does X not support it?
    - dcbadacd 8y ago
      > Does X not support it? It technically should, but there's no official page that says it does (and in which combinations) and then there's the question if the DE and other software Linux does. It all in total has a probability of breaking, combine a few rare features and it's pretty much certain something will break. It would be really awesome if say phoronix tested all of those features out in every combination :D
- acdha 8y ago
  > Also I like being able to minimize crashed windows, something other major OSs haven't done. What major OSes besides Windows and Mac OS did you have in mind?
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    Those are the two I'm thinking of. May have changed however, haven't used either extensively in several years.

emersion 8y ago

>Is it a fact that X is "smaller" than Wayland, and more resource efficient? This statement doesn't really make sense. Wayland is just a protocol, and you can build bloated compositors on top of it -- just like you can build really tiny compositors [1]. xorg-xserver on the other hand will always have the same level of "bloat". >X was designed with far more ambitious goals than Wayland This is hard to say. Wayland has been designed to be flexible enough to allow for a clean base that can be used in mobile UIs, IVIs (e.g. plane UIs), VR and so on (without hacks). [1]: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/ae4d1cdcca97ffeb2c35f0878d75dc17 https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/ae4d1cdcca97ffeb2c35f0878d7...

dunpeal 8y ago
> Wayland is just a protocol If we're splitting hairs here: X (i.e. the X11 Window System) is also "just a protocol".
- emersion 8y ago
  Sure, but then it's quite difficult to say that one is "more resource efficient" than the other. Only implementations can be compared. And in fact, when you e.g. open Gedit, hundreds of messages are exchanged on X11 (getting/registering atoms, changing window properties, etc). Wayland is much more efficient in that regard.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    > Wayland is much more efficient in that regard. Which is what I implied in my original comment... Of course, the resources are ultimately consumed by implementations, not protocols. But it helps when the protocols are efficient.

mixmastamyk 8y ago

In the sense that I first used X on Linux on a 486 in the early/mid 90's. It was snappy then and snappy now. Also I like being able to minimize crashed windows, something other major OSs haven't done.

dcbadacd 8y ago
But screen tearing is a plague on so much different hardware and multi-monitor, high-dpi, FreeSync, HDR, high-gamut (pick any combination of these things) really do not want to work perfectly with X. This is not to say Wayland is good, X Forwarding is an awesome feature and X runs probably can now run on a literally toaster.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  I'm using it with two 4k monitors now, no problem, and no screen tearing. Hi-color might be somewhat compelling, though I write text files for a living. Does X not support it?
  - dcbadacd 8y ago
    > Does X not support it? It technically should, but there's no official page that says it does (and in which combinations) and then there's the question if the DE and other software Linux does. It all in total has a probability of breaking, combine a few rare features and it's pretty much certain something will break. It would be really awesome if say phoronix tested all of those features out in every combination :D
acdha 8y ago
> Also I like being able to minimize crashed windows, something other major OSs haven't done. What major OSes besides Windows and Mac OS did you have in mind?
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Those are the two I'm thinking of. May have changed however, haven't used either extensively in several years.