4 ms·
Then your propaganda must be neo-communist. Take a look at this graph (and read the article it comes from): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt
by 5ersi 8y ago
Then your propaganda must be neo-communist.
Take a look at this graph (and read the article it comes from): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis#/media/File:HellenicOeconomy(inCurrentEuros).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis#/...
1. After Greece entered Eurozone in 2001, their already large debt exploded. They had 4-14% yearly deficit - they clearly "lived way above their means".
2. In 2011 Greece themselves declared that they can no longer service their debt, e.g. they defaulted. In this sense they had "more debts than other countries in the EU zone" and they clearly would not "have been fine it it had not been forced to destroy its economy with an austerity program". If there was no bailout, they would default on their debts and their economy would totally collapse (think Venezuela style). This also goes against you claim that "[a county] can have too much debts. That wasn't the case here."
3. Greece government was until 2011 reporting fraudulent financial statistics in order to hide true extent of debt, also employing the help of international banks. Some actions were clearly fraudulent (cross currency swap at fictitious rates).
4. Greece asked other (mainly EU) countries to help her, the result was a massive reprogram of their debts (basically they got low interest rates and reprogrammed debts to 30-50 years, something you do not get at financial markets).
5. Greece negotiated a 50% "haircut" on debt owed to private banks in 2011, which amounted to a €100bn debt relief. Most affected were EU banks (Deutsche bank, BNP Paribas, etc..). So there were private entities that actually lost money on Greece. This pretty much dispels the claim that they were a victim of neoliberalists and/or capitalists.
6. Also, it's a totally false premise that a country can not "live above their means".
The leftist agenda has been to portray Greece as a victim of capitalism and/or neoliberalism. This was mostly dispelled by facts, and I rarely see this kind of propaganda in 2018.
The reality is that Greece put themselves in this situation and international community (especially EU) stepped way out of their way to help them, except offering them a massive write-off, which if happened, would be IMO a grave mistake.
- ravingraven 8y ago>The leftist agenda has been to portray Greece as a victim of capitalism and/or neoliberalism. This was mostly dispelled by facts, and I rarely see this kind of propaganda in 2018. It was both capitalist governments that created the crisis and capitalist governments that tried to remedy it (no government has moved away from a market economy and privatizations since the late 80ies, including SYRIZA). We Greeks are 100% absolutely right to blame capitalism and/or neoliberalism. It was a capitalist/neoliberal system that created the crisis and a capitalist/neoliberal idea (austerity) that utterly failed to remedy it (it has been almost 20 years since the crisis and there is not an end in sight).
- ekianjo 8y ago> It was a capitalist/neoliberal system that created the crisis You don't seem to realize there is such thing as "personal responsibility". Nobody forced the Greeks to borrow way more money than they could ever hope to repay. The Greek government created its own problem and hoped to get away with it. There's no world where you can make it the fault of someone else.
- ravingraven 8y ago>There's no world where you can make it the fault of someone else. I never said that. The Greeks voted for such a system, I never said they didn't. But you can't say that this "leftist agenda" as you call it is wrong. It is the system that we had/have (and voted for, sure) that created and failed to solve the problem. Any leftists with this agenda are not wrong. No one in Greece is trying to shift the blame (except for some fringe conspiracy theorists from the extreme right). That Greeks are looking for someone to blame is a popular EU myth.