5 ms·

Just because the US Democratic party is associated with economic liberalism doesnt mean it isnt right-wing.

by jgh 8y ago

ekianjo 8y ago
The US democratic party wants free welfare, free education for everyone: none of this has been historically supported by "right-wing" movements. So it's a difficult to support your statement.
- jgh 8y ago
  What? Economic liberalism is about the free market, private property, reduced regulation, etc. etc. Which are traditionally the pro-business republican positions that one of the above commentators mentioned as leaving the republican party because of Trump. I don't know where these people have gone, maybe they went to the Democratic party, but collectivist ideas like welfare, free education, and single-payer healthcare aren't really "economic liberal" positions.
- leereeves 8y ago
  Bernie Sanders wanted free college, but he doesn't represent the party.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    Wasn't he hugely popular among democrats?
ben_w 8y ago
I second this. Both Democrat and Republican parties are much too right wing to get elected in the UK. I am aware that it may seem surprising that Obamacare is too right-wing, but compare it to the NHS. Likewise, one of the things which makes no sense to me about American politics are sentences like “liberals want to take away our guns” (sarcastic use of the name?) in response to limited control; in comparison, the UK is so anti-gun even the police don’t usually have any. One of the other left-right splits we see in American news is on the topic of gay marriage (left-wing pro, right-wing anti). In the UK, gay marriage was legalised by the most right-wing of the major parties.
- shard972 8y ago
  I said this somewhere else but it's a fools errand to take left/right understandings from one country and just apply it to another country. Most people refer to left/right in terms of it being a snapshot between two competing power centers which occur in democracies. You could try going down the path of common narritives or meta-narritives of the left/right but you usually end up conceptually a lot higher than some like Socialized healthcare. Hitler's germany had forms of socialized healthcare, does that make his government left-wing? He was a vegan who promoted environmentalism and animal rights, is hitler left wing? It's kind of silly espicially when you look at a country like america's political history and how the democrats of 200 years ago seem more like the republicans of today. > Likewise, one of the things which makes no sense to me about American politics are sentences like “liberals want to take away our guns” (sarcastic use of the name?) in response to limited control; in comparison, the UK is so anti-gun even the police don’t usually have any. They don't want to end up like the UK where you need a license to watch tv, own a knife, stack rocks on the beach or put rubbish in your own van. They look at a city like london where crime has skyrocketed and pensioners are being arrested for defending themselves in their own homes and wonder what on earth is wrong with the brits. Because despite what a lot of gun control people bang on about, getting rid of guns doesn't get rid of crimes. So who cares if less people are scared by a gunshots, if more people end up being violently attacked with knives? Makes absolutely no sense why anyone would be proud of reducing gun crime while ignoring the overall rise in violent crime. > One of the other left-right splits we see in American news is on the topic of gay marriage (left-wing pro, right-wing anti). In the UK, gay marriage was legalised by the most right-wing of the major parties. Gay marriage is another example of being a liberal policy and this kind of proves it. The modern western left will usually be ahead of the curve on this because they appeal heavily to minorities and gays are kind of setup to be the minority compared to hetrosexuals. In the end though it's a violation of "human rights" and the freedom of the individual under liberalism and the only way you can counter that is to introduce non-liberal arguments such as traditionalism which could then argue that it's important to maintain the monogamous man/female relationship structure. Maybe via liberalism you could claim that the rights of the child are harmed by the lack of a biological father/mother to raise them but i think that's a bit of a stretch in most cases.

Just because the US Democratic party is associated with economic liberalism doesnt mean it isnt right-wing.

by jgh 8y ago

Just because the US Democratic party is associated with economic liberalism doesnt mean it isnt right-wing.

The US democratic party wants free welfare, free education for everyone: none of this has been historically supported by "right-wing" movements. So it's a difficult to support your statement.

jgh 8y ago
What? Economic liberalism is about the free market, private property, reduced regulation, etc. etc. Which are traditionally the pro-business republican positions that one of the above commentators mentioned as leaving the republican party because of Trump. I don't know where these people have gone, maybe they went to the Democratic party, but collectivist ideas like welfare, free education, and single-payer healthcare aren't really "economic liberal" positions.
leereeves 8y ago
Bernie Sanders wanted free college, but he doesn't represent the party.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  Wasn't he hugely popular among democrats?

ben_w 8y ago

I second this. Both Democrat and Republican parties are much too right wing to get elected in the UK. I am aware that it may seem surprising that Obamacare is too right-wing, but compare it to the NHS. Likewise, one of the things which makes no sense to me about American politics are sentences like “liberals want to take away our guns” (sarcastic use of the name?) in response to limited control; in comparison, the UK is so anti-gun even the police don’t usually have any. One of the other left-right splits we see in American news is on the topic of gay marriage (left-wing pro, right-wing anti). In the UK, gay marriage was legalised by the most right-wing of the major parties.

shard972 8y ago
I said this somewhere else but it's a fools errand to take left/right understandings from one country and just apply it to another country. Most people refer to left/right in terms of it being a snapshot between two competing power centers which occur in democracies. You could try going down the path of common narritives or meta-narritives of the left/right but you usually end up conceptually a lot higher than some like Socialized healthcare. Hitler's germany had forms of socialized healthcare, does that make his government left-wing? He was a vegan who promoted environmentalism and animal rights, is hitler left wing? It's kind of silly espicially when you look at a country like america's political history and how the democrats of 200 years ago seem more like the republicans of today. > Likewise, one of the things which makes no sense to me about American politics are sentences like “liberals want to take away our guns” (sarcastic use of the name?) in response to limited control; in comparison, the UK is so anti-gun even the police don’t usually have any. They don't want to end up like the UK where you need a license to watch tv, own a knife, stack rocks on the beach or put rubbish in your own van. They look at a city like london where crime has skyrocketed and pensioners are being arrested for defending themselves in their own homes and wonder what on earth is wrong with the brits. Because despite what a lot of gun control people bang on about, getting rid of guns doesn't get rid of crimes. So who cares if less people are scared by a gunshots, if more people end up being violently attacked with knives? Makes absolutely no sense why anyone would be proud of reducing gun crime while ignoring the overall rise in violent crime. > One of the other left-right splits we see in American news is on the topic of gay marriage (left-wing pro, right-wing anti). In the UK, gay marriage was legalised by the most right-wing of the major parties. Gay marriage is another example of being a liberal policy and this kind of proves it. The modern western left will usually be ahead of the curve on this because they appeal heavily to minorities and gays are kind of setup to be the minority compared to hetrosexuals. In the end though it's a violation of "human rights" and the freedom of the individual under liberalism and the only way you can counter that is to introduce non-liberal arguments such as traditionalism which could then argue that it's important to maintain the monogamous man/female relationship structure. Maybe via liberalism you could claim that the rights of the child are harmed by the lack of a biological father/mother to raise them but i think that's a bit of a stretch in most cases.