19 ms·

agree, this kind of issues exists in any highly complicated systems which need to take into account memory security etc. I dont think a lot of people realise th

agree, this kind of issues exists in any highly complicated systems which need to take into account memory security etc. I dont think a lot of people realise that modern browsers are about as complicated as the operating systems they run in and have about as much counter measures for security problems as the OS undernearth it. To manage these systems resources securely and not have them fight eachother in the process is an incredibly complicated and tedious job. That being said i do agree with a lot of people there is a lot of bloat. But often this bloat is caused by lack of understanding of this complexity in what they are building software. If things like this are more generally known and understood problems like this memory issue in google application would be less. my own solution to my hate for bloat is to write my own software from scratch. and before i complete that lifetime task i feel it's unfair to complain at others who spend their entire lifetime making programs you use because they made it a little too bloated for you due to whatever reasons... I think for your question worth discussing, why/how this happens, and how to make it easier to diagnose, is that more people like the writer of this blog are so kind as tho share their findings with us :)

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> I dont think a lot of people realise that modern browsers are about as complicated as the operating systems they run in and have about as much counter measures for security problems as the OS undernearth it. There's an argument to be made that maybe 'security' isn't worth as much as the blogosphere thinks it is. Like everything else in life, it's a trade off, and because it is in their best interest the security "experts" do their best to sensationalize and promote paranoia and over-reaction to every little potential problem without regard for the cost, namely inconvenience and slow software. What was the solution to Meltdown and Spectre again? Oh yeah, make everything slower on the off chance someone will use a timing attack to maybe slowly exfiltrate some information from memory that might be important. If you're a cloud host that tradeoff is probably worth it, if you're a desktop user outside of an intelligence organization it probably isn't, but you'll pay the cost none the less. 1% here, 2% there, no big deal right? But it sure adds up. Do an experiment: install 2 VMs, one with Windows Server 2016 (or Windows 10), and one with Windows Server 2003 (Or Windows XP). The 2003 (XP) VM will be so much more responsive it will freak you out because you aren't used to it. How much of your life has been wasted waiting for windows to appear and start drawing their contents? What are we getting in exchange?
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  How many minutes would that highly responsive Windows XP install survive browsing the web before it's rendered useless by tons of malware? How many 2005 era applications, print drivers, toolbars or screensavers, and whatever else was cool in 2005, can you install before the machine is as responsive as a 300 baud connection? XP era was probably peak crapware with people having IE with 12 added toolbars and unusable everything. Often solved by buying a replacement machine because the old one got so slow.
  - smolder 8y ago
    There's not too much in the way of xp malware still actively spreading, but you're right, an xp machine at one point was like a public domain colocated computer to be abused by whoever. Computer insecurity is costly and counterproductive. It helps criminals and maybe the occasional oppressive regimes walk us backwards, mess up lives, mess up businesses. I don't think privilege escalation and encryption key theft should be taken lightly. Abusable things get abused.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    There's plenty of crapware today, hell, Microsoft forces some of it on you in the default install. The same rules more or less still apply: it's risky to install crap from random untrusted sources. I still have an XP machine I use all the time at work because it has a real physical serial port for talking to some equipment with. It hasn't been a problem.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

> I dont think a lot of people realise that modern browsers are about as complicated as the operating systems they run in and have about as much counter measures for security problems as the OS undernearth it. There's an argument to be made that maybe 'security' isn't worth as much as the blogosphere thinks it is. Like everything else in life, it's a trade off, and because it is in their best interest the security "experts" do their best to sensationalize and promote paranoia and over-reaction to every little potential problem without regard for the cost, namely inconvenience and slow software. What was the solution to Meltdown and Spectre again? Oh yeah, make everything slower on the off chance someone will use a timing attack to maybe slowly exfiltrate some information from memory that might be important. If you're a cloud host that tradeoff is probably worth it, if you're a desktop user outside of an intelligence organization it probably isn't, but you'll pay the cost none the less. 1% here, 2% there, no big deal right? But it sure adds up. Do an experiment: install 2 VMs, one with Windows Server 2016 (or Windows 10), and one with Windows Server 2003 (Or Windows XP). The 2003 (XP) VM will be so much more responsive it will freak you out because you aren't used to it. How much of your life has been wasted waiting for windows to appear and start drawing their contents? What are we getting in exchange?

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
How many minutes would that highly responsive Windows XP install survive browsing the web before it's rendered useless by tons of malware? How many 2005 era applications, print drivers, toolbars or screensavers, and whatever else was cool in 2005, can you install before the machine is as responsive as a 300 baud connection? XP era was probably peak crapware with people having IE with 12 added toolbars and unusable everything. Often solved by buying a replacement machine because the old one got so slow.
- smolder 8y ago
  There's not too much in the way of xp malware still actively spreading, but you're right, an xp machine at one point was like a public domain colocated computer to be abused by whoever. Computer insecurity is costly and counterproductive. It helps criminals and maybe the occasional oppressive regimes walk us backwards, mess up lives, mess up businesses. I don't think privilege escalation and encryption key theft should be taken lightly. Abusable things get abused.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  There's plenty of crapware today, hell, Microsoft forces some of it on you in the default install. The same rules more or less still apply: it's risky to install crap from random untrusted sources. I still have an XP machine I use all the time at work because it has a real physical serial port for talking to some equipment with. It hasn't been a problem.