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>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here

>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here is cleaner than almost anywhere else in Europe. One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. One area that this would for sure revitalize would be Middle America. There are towns and counties that are in a deep economic recession, but have lots of cheap land and housing. Meanwhile in Silicon Valley, developers making 6 figures worry about whether they can afford a shack. Remote work would be a great boon for both workers and communities.

eafkuor 8y ago
> Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. Could it potentially increase house prices and make them unaffordable for other people?
- cycrutchfield 8y ago
  10 developers are going to buy up all the houses in the village?
  - wiz21c 8y ago
    just decrease dev's salaries and everything will be fine
    - ben_w 8y ago
      Then the devs quit and work for someone else, probably for even more pay.
    - cycrutchfield 8y ago
      yeah ok, i'll get right on that. it's not like salaries are determined by the market for those skills or anything
  - staz 8y ago
    They are going to buy them all then rent them back to the original inhabitants. Then write non ironic post about how everyone should build passive source of income because working a 4 hours week is great
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Who are these other people of which you speak?
ravingraven 8y ago
>Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. I guarantee that this village has no internet (other than 3/4G with a data cap).
- Tade0 8y ago
  That's not a hurdle that can't be overcome. I spent a year with such a connection and a 14GB data cap being shared with my SO. If you go easy on the netflix/youtube/videoconferencing you're good. Amazingly enough voice-only hangouts work pretty well at 32kbps. One problem I do se though is what if such a developer wants to start a family? I'm not sure the availability of schools is too good in such areas.
- Flavius 8y ago
  I don't know where you live, but in certain locations in Europe (villages, small cities) you can get decent internet. Unlimited 4G/5G is also gonna happen in a few years.
  - ravingraven 8y ago
    I currently live in Germany, but I am Greek and have lived in Greece for most of my life.
- oblio 8y ago
  You think that the Apple that built the $5bn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Park can't drag a handful of pitiful fiber optic cables 500 miles to where they're needed, if they really wanted? :)
  - puranjay 8y ago
    I don't even think it's about dragging fiber cables. I live in India and in the last one year, a single company's efforts - Reliance Jio - have ensured that I get decent 4G connectivity nearly everywhere. Price is a non-issue - I pay less than $3/month for about 2GB/day of downloads. If I needed more, I wouldn't have to pay more than $10/month. India isn't exactly the most advanced country. Can't imagine why internet would be a problem in any affluent country anymore.
deninho 8y ago
Unfortunately, in remote greek villages, there is nothing to attract you. Old houses in bad condition, no infrastructure (no fast and kinda reliable internet connection, some don't even have 3G or 4G signal), nothing for entertainment other than the traditional coffee shop, almost no young people to socialize with, and most important, there is no willing from the government, local or centralized, to help improve living conditions there. They are beautiful for a trip, but not to live forever. As a matter of fact, Greece is not attractive for a young person to live and work here.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
" Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy." The same could be said of the 10K small villages in America, or billion in the rest of the world.
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
> "One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy." In rural areas I think you have to start thinking more concretely about what "economy" means. With smaller populations things are much more micro than macro. One huge difference between rural and urban areas is that people are much more self sufficient, which makes economic numbers difficult to compare. For instance somebody with an income of $5,000 is generally going to be living a pretty miserable life in the city. On the other hand that can easily be more than enough to live extremely comfortably, even given comparable costs for what's purchased, in a rural area. And the reason is self sufficiency. In a rural area that person likely already owns their home (80%+ home ownership in rural areas [1]) and activities come entertainment like hunting, fishing, and agriculture can provide immense amounts of resources. For instance just a single large whitetail deer can easily yield more than 100 pounds of edible meat. A single catfish and you're looking at 5-10 pounds of food, and so on. And the overhead costs there are completely negligible. The hunting license costs way more than everything else combined (once you already have your guns, rods, tackle, etc). Get into things like raising chickens and pigs, and you literally will never have to pay a dime for food again if you don't want. $5,000 ends up meaning very different things, even if we ignore localized inflation. It's just you don't need to buy as much. Of course the corollary there is that notions like "economy" start to mean different things. If people don't need, or want, to buy as much - then economic growth is not a very good indicator of how well a place is doing. We take the view that people must not only constantly want more, but also buy more, earn more, and spend more. Growth, growth, growth! What of people that are, "Nah - thanks, but I'm okay with what I have"? So now we stick a guy earning 6 figures into the middle of all of this. I'm not really sure his effect is going to be, but it seems a bit simplistic to simply immediately equate more money with success. [1] - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2016/12/homes_on_the_range.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2016/...
- pjc50 8y ago
  > single large whitetail deer Are these widely available in Greece? > Get into things like raising chickens and pigs, and you literally will never have to pay a dime for food again if you don't want. Have you actually done this? I know people who have tiny farms as a hobby, and people who've retired from smallholding because it was uneconomic, and people who live in remote areas of Scotland .. and this resembles none of their lives. You might not have to pay for food (of a few types at certain times of the year), but you can't grow your own petrol or heating oil.
elorant 8y ago
As long as the village has proper infrastructure. That is a decent Internet connection (in Greek counties average connection speed is about 3Mbps so forget about teleconferencing and such), decent mobile connection, frequent public transportation, adequate medical facilities (a lot of municipalities have understaffed hospitals) and equally adequately staffed schools. In my estimates, more than 80% of the country outside big cities fails in one or more of those factors.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
I would bet a significant portion of high achievers want to live in urban areas near other high achievers rather than rural areas. Face to face networking opens up many, many doors.

eafkuor 8y ago

> Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. Could it potentially increase house prices and make them unaffordable for other people?

cycrutchfield 8y ago
10 developers are going to buy up all the houses in the village?
- wiz21c 8y ago
  just decrease dev's salaries and everything will be fine
  - ben_w 8y ago
    Then the devs quit and work for someone else, probably for even more pay.
  - cycrutchfield 8y ago
    yeah ok, i'll get right on that. it's not like salaries are determined by the market for those skills or anything
- staz 8y ago
  They are going to buy them all then rent them back to the original inhabitants. Then write non ironic post about how everyone should build passive source of income because working a 4 hours week is great
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Who are these other people of which you speak?

ravingraven 8y ago

>Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. I guarantee that this village has no internet (other than 3/4G with a data cap).

Tade0 8y ago
That's not a hurdle that can't be overcome. I spent a year with such a connection and a 14GB data cap being shared with my SO. If you go easy on the netflix/youtube/videoconferencing you're good. Amazingly enough voice-only hangouts work pretty well at 32kbps. One problem I do se though is what if such a developer wants to start a family? I'm not sure the availability of schools is too good in such areas.
Flavius 8y ago
I don't know where you live, but in certain locations in Europe (villages, small cities) you can get decent internet. Unlimited 4G/5G is also gonna happen in a few years.
- ravingraven 8y ago
  I currently live in Germany, but I am Greek and have lived in Greece for most of my life.
oblio 8y ago
You think that the Apple that built the $5bn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Park can't drag a handful of pitiful fiber optic cables 500 miles to where they're needed, if they really wanted? :)
- puranjay 8y ago
  I don't even think it's about dragging fiber cables. I live in India and in the last one year, a single company's efforts - Reliance Jio - have ensured that I get decent 4G connectivity nearly everywhere. Price is a non-issue - I pay less than $3/month for about 2GB/day of downloads. If I needed more, I wouldn't have to pay more than $10/month. India isn't exactly the most advanced country. Can't imagine why internet would be a problem in any affluent country anymore.

deninho 8y ago

Unfortunately, in remote greek villages, there is nothing to attract you. Old houses in bad condition, no infrastructure (no fast and kinda reliable internet connection, some don't even have 3G or 4G signal), nothing for entertainment other than the traditional coffee shop, almost no young people to socialize with, and most important, there is no willing from the government, local or centralized, to help improve living conditions there. They are beautiful for a trip, but not to live forever. As a matter of fact, Greece is not attractive for a young person to live and work here.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

" Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy." The same could be said of the 10K small villages in America, or billion in the rest of the world.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

> "One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy." In rural areas I think you have to start thinking more concretely about what "economy" means. With smaller populations things are much more micro than macro. One huge difference between rural and urban areas is that people are much more self sufficient, which makes economic numbers difficult to compare. For instance somebody with an income of $5,000 is generally going to be living a pretty miserable life in the city. On the other hand that can easily be more than enough to live extremely comfortably, even given comparable costs for what's purchased, in a rural area. And the reason is self sufficiency. In a rural area that person likely already owns their home (80%+ home ownership in rural areas [1]) and activities come entertainment like hunting, fishing, and agriculture can provide immense amounts of resources. For instance just a single large whitetail deer can easily yield more than 100 pounds of edible meat. A single catfish and you're looking at 5-10 pounds of food, and so on. And the overhead costs there are completely negligible. The hunting license costs way more than everything else combined (once you already have your guns, rods, tackle, etc). Get into things like raising chickens and pigs, and you literally will never have to pay a dime for food again if you don't want. $5,000 ends up meaning very different things, even if we ignore localized inflation. It's just you don't need to buy as much. Of course the corollary there is that notions like "economy" start to mean different things. If people don't need, or want, to buy as much - then economic growth is not a very good indicator of how well a place is doing. We take the view that people must not only constantly want more, but also buy more, earn more, and spend more. Growth, growth, growth! What of people that are, "Nah - thanks, but I'm okay with what I have"? So now we stick a guy earning 6 figures into the middle of all of this. I'm not really sure his effect is going to be, but it seems a bit simplistic to simply immediately equate more money with success. [1] - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2016/12/homes_on_the_range.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2016/...

pjc50 8y ago
> single large whitetail deer Are these widely available in Greece? > Get into things like raising chickens and pigs, and you literally will never have to pay a dime for food again if you don't want. Have you actually done this? I know people who have tiny farms as a hobby, and people who've retired from smallholding because it was uneconomic, and people who live in remote areas of Scotland .. and this resembles none of their lives. You might not have to pay for food (of a few types at certain times of the year), but you can't grow your own petrol or heating oil.

elorant 8y ago

As long as the village has proper infrastructure. That is a decent Internet connection (in Greek counties average connection speed is about 3Mbps so forget about teleconferencing and such), decent mobile connection, frequent public transportation, adequate medical facilities (a lot of municipalities have understaffed hospitals) and equally adequately staffed schools. In my estimates, more than 80% of the country outside big cities fails in one or more of those factors.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

I would bet a significant portion of high achievers want to live in urban areas near other high achievers rather than rural areas. Face to face networking opens up many, many doors.