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Judaism has no hell, ask any religious Jew. (I know a few and have had this very discussion with them.) Ghenna was a burning trash heap, not a place of torment.

Judaism has no hell, ask any religious Jew. (I know a few and have had this very discussion with them.) Ghenna was a burning trash heap, not a place of torment. Death is a silencing end, not a torturous punishment in the bible, including the teachings used by the Jews. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell Also, christian Churches don't teach Jewish theology, they teach a version of Catholisim, and eternal burning hell fire of punishment is found in the Vatican's own Catechism of the Catholic Church. "1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs." http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM This is a purely Catholic teaching, and other branches of Christianity, derive many of their myths from the Greeks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#Greek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#Greek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell#Roman_Catholicism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell#Roman_... The bible is clear that when you die, you are either asleep, like King David was (Jesus referenced his bones) or burned up and gone forever, the lake of fire from Revelations.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Judaism has no hell, ask any religious Jew. Not all historical variations of Jewish religious beliefs that existed near the time of the birth of Christianity still exist as Jewish beliefs, but, AFAICT, the Jewish belief of at a minimum something like a Purgatory is still active; the concept of hell/Gehenna explicit in the Gospels as a place of punishment reflected (possibly an evolution from) a then-current (but not at all universal) Jewish religious belief related to the one that remains current in some branches of Judaism. > Ghenna was a burning trash heap, not a place of torment. This idea appears to be a medieval Jewish invention. It was, again, specifically in the Hebrew scriptures, a place where children were sacrificed by fire by non-Jews. > Also, christian Churches don't teach Jewish theology No, they teach Christian theology, but Christian theology didn't, as whole, arise ex nihilo with the formation of Christianity as a distinct religious community, it evolved, in many specifics, from Jewish theology that existed where and when Christianity emerged. > they teach a version of Catholisim, Well, no. It's true that most (but not all) now-existing branches of Christianity diverged at some point from the Church that was institutionalized in Rome in the same way that Christianity itself diverged from Judaism; to claim, then, that they teach “a version of Catholicism” is true only in the exact same way as saying that they teach a version of Judaism is. > and eternal burning hell fire of punishment is found in the Vatican's own Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's found in the Gospel of Mark (9:43); from the KJV: “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched” And also in Revelation (20:10): “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” I'm pretty sure the authors of the Gospel and the Revelation weren't inspired by theological developments that would occur after the institutionalization of Roman Catholicism. > The bible is clear that when you die, you are either asleep, like King David was (Jesus referenced his bones) or burned up and gone forever, the lake of fire from Revelations This is phenomenally wrong: the Bible uses lots of different and superficially conflicting images of afterlife states, and the lake of fire of Revelation is explicitly one of eternal torment at least for some.
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  >Mark (9:43) ...into the fire that never shall be quenched" It doesn't say they will still be alive, just burned to death. Many other scriptures confirm a permanent death, none say everlasting torment. >Revelation (20:10): “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” It says the "devil" and the beast and the false prophet will tormented, but no one else is listed here. In Rev 22:18,19 and Deut 4:2 have strict warnings about adding to or taking away words from the bible. I would completely support a statement that these scriptures "strongly imply" or even "seem to imply", but they certainly do not state plainly that people will go to the classical hell taught by many today.
  - jezclaremurugan 8y ago
    where their worm shall never die..
    - RobertRoberts 8y ago
      "Worm", not person/soul (or whatever word for human). As much as I feel it would have ended many religious debates if the bible had been written more clearly, there are some things that just aren't there.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > It says the "devil" and the beast and the false prophet will tormented, but no one else is listed here. The mentioned devil and beast may or may not be, but the false prophet is a person so this: > I would completely support a statement that these scriptures "strongly imply" or even "seem to imply", but they certainly do not state plainly that people will go to the classical hell taught by many today. Is only correct in the sense that the classical hell is an amalgam of images of Sheol/Hades, Gehenna, the Revelations lake of fire, Tartarus, and definitely other places/outcomes that don't have proper names mentioned in parables, etc., and not directly tied to one single image in the Bible, and the Bible never explicitly says all of these are the same place. But it's absolutely the case that the Bible explicitly and literally says that people in some number n where n ≥ 1 will be punished in everlasting fire, which is the point that was in dispute.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Judaism has no hell, ask any religious Jew. Not all historical variations of Jewish religious beliefs that existed near the time of the birth of Christianity still exist as Jewish beliefs, but, AFAICT, the Jewish belief of at a minimum something like a Purgatory is still active; the concept of hell/Gehenna explicit in the Gospels as a place of punishment reflected (possibly an evolution from) a then-current (but not at all universal) Jewish religious belief related to the one that remains current in some branches of Judaism. > Ghenna was a burning trash heap, not a place of torment. This idea appears to be a medieval Jewish invention. It was, again, specifically in the Hebrew scriptures, a place where children were sacrificed by fire by non-Jews. > Also, christian Churches don't teach Jewish theology No, they teach Christian theology, but Christian theology didn't, as whole, arise ex nihilo with the formation of Christianity as a distinct religious community, it evolved, in many specifics, from Jewish theology that existed where and when Christianity emerged. > they teach a version of Catholisim, Well, no. It's true that most (but not all) now-existing branches of Christianity diverged at some point from the Church that was institutionalized in Rome in the same way that Christianity itself diverged from Judaism; to claim, then, that they teach “a version of Catholicism” is true only in the exact same way as saying that they teach a version of Judaism is. > and eternal burning hell fire of punishment is found in the Vatican's own Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's found in the Gospel of Mark (9:43); from the KJV: “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched” And also in Revelation (20:10): “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” I'm pretty sure the authors of the Gospel and the Revelation weren't inspired by theological developments that would occur after the institutionalization of Roman Catholicism. > The bible is clear that when you die, you are either asleep, like King David was (Jesus referenced his bones) or burned up and gone forever, the lake of fire from Revelations This is phenomenally wrong: the Bible uses lots of different and superficially conflicting images of afterlife states, and the lake of fire of Revelation is explicitly one of eternal torment at least for some.

RobertRoberts 8y ago
>Mark (9:43) ...into the fire that never shall be quenched" It doesn't say they will still be alive, just burned to death. Many other scriptures confirm a permanent death, none say everlasting torment. >Revelation (20:10): “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” It says the "devil" and the beast and the false prophet will tormented, but no one else is listed here. In Rev 22:18,19 and Deut 4:2 have strict warnings about adding to or taking away words from the bible. I would completely support a statement that these scriptures "strongly imply" or even "seem to imply", but they certainly do not state plainly that people will go to the classical hell taught by many today.
- jezclaremurugan 8y ago
  where their worm shall never die..
  - RobertRoberts 8y ago
    "Worm", not person/soul (or whatever word for human). As much as I feel it would have ended many religious debates if the bible had been written more clearly, there are some things that just aren't there.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > It says the "devil" and the beast and the false prophet will tormented, but no one else is listed here. The mentioned devil and beast may or may not be, but the false prophet is a person so this: > I would completely support a statement that these scriptures "strongly imply" or even "seem to imply", but they certainly do not state plainly that people will go to the classical hell taught by many today. Is only correct in the sense that the classical hell is an amalgam of images of Sheol/Hades, Gehenna, the Revelations lake of fire, Tartarus, and definitely other places/outcomes that don't have proper names mentioned in parables, etc., and not directly tied to one single image in the Bible, and the Bible never explicitly says all of these are the same place. But it's absolutely the case that the Bible explicitly and literally says that people in some number n where n ≥ 1 will be punished in everlasting fire, which is the point that was in dispute.