4 ms·

Migrating games to WM7 is not that easy because WM7 does not support OpenGL ES AFAIK. Rather, you have to write using XNA. This is rather unfortunate because iP

Migrating games to WM7 is not that easy because WM7 does not support OpenGL ES AFAIK. Rather, you have to write using XNA. This is rather unfortunate because iPhone, Android, Symbian^3, Meego, WebOS and the new blackberry tablet all support OpenGL ES 2.0 (which I believe Angry Birds uses heavily). Briging an iPhone/Android etc game to WM7 requires a rewrite almost from scratch. So I can imagine developers being reluctant but possibly game studios doing PC and Xbox development might be more willing to write for WM7. And I must say MS has been able to attract a decent game developer audience considering the released official list of games available for WM7.

mjfern 16y ago
I'm surprised that WM7 doesn't support OpenGL ES. For the launch of the Xbox, Microsoft was very careful to make it easy on developers (e.g., with XNA, which was useable on the PC, Xbox and Xbox 360). This is in contrast to Sony with the PS3 which wasn't as careful about efforts to support developers. As a side note, Kaz Hirai, CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, said this lack of developer support was intentional: "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" Needless to say, this seems absurd. To attract developers and apps to WM7, Microsoft should be thinking about ways to make it as easy as possible for developers to port apps from existing platforms over to WM7 (particularly from iOS and Android). WM7 is already facing an uphill battle. There's no reason to create more friction in the system.
- masklinn 16y ago
  > I'm surprised that WM7 doesn't support OpenGL ES. Really? They have their own platform, tools and technologies which they're clearly trying to push and which unify their offerings, how is that surprising exactly? Last time I checked, the 360 offered absolutely no support for OpenGL. > Microsoft was very careful to make it easy on developers For developers using Microsoft technology. Windows Phone 7 mandates .net for development, either Silverlight or XNA (for games) and forbids C or raw C++. As with Android, WP7 will be launching without an NDK.
  - mjfern 16y ago
    When you're essentially facing no competition (e.g., Windows, Office, 10 years ago) you can push a closed approach. When you're behind and facing two formidable rivals (Apple and Google), you need to apply a different approach. Apple learned this lesson upon Steve Jobs return. The first iMac was much more compatible with PC peripherals. The compatibility was further enhanced when Apple shifted to Intel processors. This compatibility certainly helped Apple attract more customers and complements to its platform.
    - danudey 16y ago
      > The first iMac was much more compatible with PC peripherals. I could be remembering wrong, but this sounds like revisionist history. The original iMac was compatible with USB (and relied upon it); most PCs didn't come with USB ports, and most peripherals didn't support it. Since USB is a universal standard, however, it gave manufacturers an opportunity to make one device that supported both systems (vs. making one that supported Mac-specific printer ports and parallel ports). This was part of the appeal of USB in the first place, but when the iMac was launched that was not a huge selection of peripherals that suddenly worked everywhere.
      - mjfern 16y ago
        Here is the timeline: USB 1.0 was released in January 1996. Windows 98 launched in May/June 1998. Windows 98 was the first MSFT OS with native USB support. The first iMac was launched in August 1998. USB 1.1 was released in September 1998. According to a June 1998 CNET article titled "Peripherals to surge with Win 98," Rob Bennett, group product manager of Windows 98 stated: "There will be a pretty impressive showing of peripherals this summer..There are 250 devices due to be launched around Windows 98 and 100 in development [to be] released in the next year..." (http://news.cnet.com/Peripherals-to-surge-with-Win-98/2100-1001_3-212671.html#ixzz1212GMjKK http://news.cnet.com/Peripherals-to-surge-with-Win-98/2100-1...) Looking through Google news archives for 1998, I see the following devices with USB support: Logitech scanners, Intel video cameras ("Create and Share"), Imation and Iomega high capacity drives, Kodak digital cameras, joysticks, modems, etc. Hence, there was a collection of PC peripherals supporting USB around the time of the Windows 98 launch (in May/June) and the iMac launch later in the year (August).
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- zacharyz 16y ago
  XNA was originally just Managed Direct X (direct x written in .net). So no it isn't a surprise that they don't support open gl.
masklinn 16y ago
> OpenGL ES 2.0 (which I believe Angry Birds uses heavily). I don't think the exact version of OpenGL ES Angry Bird uses for its implementation is very relevant considering WP7 doesn't support it at all, in any version.
ajg1977 16y ago
Difficulty of porting to WP7 has little to do with the lack of OpenGL ES, particularly for a game like Angry Birds which in terms of hardware dependence basically just renders sprites. Assuming similar hardware capabilities and a sensible abstraction layer this part of porting is surprisingly straight forward. The big issue is that all WP7 development must be in managed code. Unlike the PC You cannot mix and match managed/native code and libraries. This is a big problem for companies with existing games and tech built around C/C++, and a huge problem for smaller companies who have built their games on free/OSS libraries (Bullet for example) and do not have the resources/skillset to develop managed alternatives. So you are right that porting to WP7 requires a rewrite, but it's entirely due to the requirement of managed code and not because of OGL ES v XNA.

mjfern 16y ago

I'm surprised that WM7 doesn't support OpenGL ES. For the launch of the Xbox, Microsoft was very careful to make it easy on developers (e.g., with XNA, which was useable on the PC, Xbox and Xbox 360). This is in contrast to Sony with the PS3 which wasn't as careful about efforts to support developers. As a side note, Kaz Hirai, CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, said this lack of developer support was intentional: "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" Needless to say, this seems absurd. To attract developers and apps to WM7, Microsoft should be thinking about ways to make it as easy as possible for developers to port apps from existing platforms over to WM7 (particularly from iOS and Android). WM7 is already facing an uphill battle. There's no reason to create more friction in the system.

masklinn 16y ago
> I'm surprised that WM7 doesn't support OpenGL ES. Really? They have their own platform, tools and technologies which they're clearly trying to push and which unify their offerings, how is that surprising exactly? Last time I checked, the 360 offered absolutely no support for OpenGL. > Microsoft was very careful to make it easy on developers For developers using Microsoft technology. Windows Phone 7 mandates .net for development, either Silverlight or XNA (for games) and forbids C or raw C++. As with Android, WP7 will be launching without an NDK.
- mjfern 16y ago
  When you're essentially facing no competition (e.g., Windows, Office, 10 years ago) you can push a closed approach. When you're behind and facing two formidable rivals (Apple and Google), you need to apply a different approach. Apple learned this lesson upon Steve Jobs return. The first iMac was much more compatible with PC peripherals. The compatibility was further enhanced when Apple shifted to Intel processors. This compatibility certainly helped Apple attract more customers and complements to its platform.
  - danudey 16y ago
    > The first iMac was much more compatible with PC peripherals. I could be remembering wrong, but this sounds like revisionist history. The original iMac was compatible with USB (and relied upon it); most PCs didn't come with USB ports, and most peripherals didn't support it. Since USB is a universal standard, however, it gave manufacturers an opportunity to make one device that supported both systems (vs. making one that supported Mac-specific printer ports and parallel ports). This was part of the appeal of USB in the first place, but when the iMac was launched that was not a huge selection of peripherals that suddenly worked everywhere.
    - mjfern 16y ago
      Here is the timeline: USB 1.0 was released in January 1996. Windows 98 launched in May/June 1998. Windows 98 was the first MSFT OS with native USB support. The first iMac was launched in August 1998. USB 1.1 was released in September 1998. According to a June 1998 CNET article titled "Peripherals to surge with Win 98," Rob Bennett, group product manager of Windows 98 stated: "There will be a pretty impressive showing of peripherals this summer..There are 250 devices due to be launched around Windows 98 and 100 in development [to be] released in the next year..." (http://news.cnet.com/Peripherals-to-surge-with-Win-98/2100-1001_3-212671.html#ixzz1212GMjKK http://news.cnet.com/Peripherals-to-surge-with-Win-98/2100-1...) Looking through Google news archives for 1998, I see the following devices with USB support: Logitech scanners, Intel video cameras ("Create and Share"), Imation and Iomega high capacity drives, Kodak digital cameras, joysticks, modems, etc. Hence, there was a collection of PC peripherals supporting USB around the time of the Windows 98 launch (in May/June) and the iMac launch later in the year (August).
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
zacharyz 16y ago
XNA was originally just Managed Direct X (direct x written in .net). So no it isn't a surprise that they don't support open gl.

masklinn 16y ago

> OpenGL ES 2.0 (which I believe Angry Birds uses heavily). I don't think the exact version of OpenGL ES Angry Bird uses for its implementation is very relevant considering WP7 doesn't support it at all, in any version.

ajg1977 16y ago

Difficulty of porting to WP7 has little to do with the lack of OpenGL ES, particularly for a game like Angry Birds which in terms of hardware dependence basically just renders sprites. Assuming similar hardware capabilities and a sensible abstraction layer this part of porting is surprisingly straight forward. The big issue is that all WP7 development must be in managed code. Unlike the PC You cannot mix and match managed/native code and libraries. This is a big problem for companies with existing games and tech built around C/C++, and a huge problem for smaller companies who have built their games on free/OSS libraries (Bullet for example) and do not have the resources/skillset to develop managed alternatives. So you are right that porting to WP7 requires a rewrite, but it's entirely due to the requirement of managed code and not because of OGL ES v XNA.