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Milton Friedman was one of a few economists responsible for what would become the neoliberal economic policies that free markets are infallible that we have tod

Milton Friedman was one of a few economists responsible for what would become the neoliberal economic policies that free markets are infallible that we have today. Policies that have benefitted primarily the already wealthy amassers of capital and which are in large part responsible for the massive income inequality and erosion of labour rights that is present for the first time since the Gilded Age. His idea of human beings as rational, self-interested economic actors that is a ludicrously narrow model of the human being and has been disastrous for the working and middle classes all over the developed world. Quotes from Friedman are worth nothing to me, personally.

fbonetti 8y ago
> His idea of human beings as rational, self-interested economic actors that is a ludicrously narrow model of the human being Sure, but in order to understand human behavior on the scale of millions of people making billions of transactions, you need to start with a simple axiom and move on from there. I think people hear the word "self-interest" and think "greed", and assume that mainstream economics must be predicted on a very cynical view of human beings. That's not the case at all. We all want to survive. We can't possibly understand the individual needs of other people outside of a small circle of people that we love and care about. None of us are omniscient. The beautiful thing about markets is that none of us need to have perfect information in order to participate. By simply buying the things we need and selling things the things we don't, prices emerge in a totally decentralized way. If you can think of a more accurate way to describe human economic motives, I'd like to hear it. > has been disastrous for the working and middle classes all over the developed world. Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. Sure, there's a large gap between the richest and poorest, but the poorest people of the world are also materially better off than at any other point in human history. I don't see how this is a bad thing.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  That doesn't mean Capitalism can't do better. I'm extremely tired of this "Capitalism did good things once! Why are you criticizing Capitalism?" trope when talking about the very obvious flaws of it.
  - fbonetti 8y ago
    I agree. It's definitely not perfect, and I do view the rising inequality and stagnant wages as a serious issue. I just find it alarming that when people criticize capitalism, they usually advocate for some variety of full blown socialism, which has been tried many times before and failed disastrously every single time. I don't know what the solution is. Every government intervention has the potential to distort the market and create corrupt/perverse incentives. Rent control is a great example of something that sounds nice on paper but ends up increasing housing costs as a result. I'm generally in favor of expanding the welfare state but I think we should be extremely cautious in doing so.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      Unfortunately, we seem to be stuck in this situation where we can't muster up the political will to try anything that has any elements of the dreaded "socialism". It's like a ratchet that can only go one acceptable way: More capitalism.
      - fbonetti 8y ago
        Yeah, it's unfortunate that the word "socialism" has completely lost it's meaning in the US. I don't think Americans truly comprehend how radical Socialism actually is. To compare increasing the minimum wage with Socialism is beyond absurd. Terms like "welfare state" are also loaded with negative connotations.
        ryandrake 8y ago
        Concepts like "socialism" and "unions" have sustained a relentless smear campaign orchestrated by the right for decades. The propaganda is so bad that it's probably worse to be labeled a socialist than to be labeled a pedophile in the USA.
    - krapp 8y ago
      >I just find it alarming that when people criticize capitalism, they usually advocate for some variety of full blown socialism, which has been tried many times before and failed disastrously every single time. And yet something less than full blown socialism seems to work fine just about everywhere.
pitaj 8y ago
You're acting as if his policy suggestions were enacted across the board. In reality, we've had growing regulatory burden and other government distortion in the economy. This includes healthcare, tariffs, copyright/patents, monetary policy, endless war, the drug war, immigration restrictions, complicated tax policy, agricultural subsidies, welfare traps, and much more.

fbonetti 8y ago

> His idea of human beings as rational, self-interested economic actors that is a ludicrously narrow model of the human being Sure, but in order to understand human behavior on the scale of millions of people making billions of transactions, you need to start with a simple axiom and move on from there. I think people hear the word "self-interest" and think "greed", and assume that mainstream economics must be predicted on a very cynical view of human beings. That's not the case at all. We all want to survive. We can't possibly understand the individual needs of other people outside of a small circle of people that we love and care about. None of us are omniscient. The beautiful thing about markets is that none of us need to have perfect information in order to participate. By simply buying the things we need and selling things the things we don't, prices emerge in a totally decentralized way. If you can think of a more accurate way to describe human economic motives, I'd like to hear it. > has been disastrous for the working and middle classes all over the developed world. Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. Sure, there's a large gap between the richest and poorest, but the poorest people of the world are also materially better off than at any other point in human history. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
That doesn't mean Capitalism can't do better. I'm extremely tired of this "Capitalism did good things once! Why are you criticizing Capitalism?" trope when talking about the very obvious flaws of it.
- fbonetti 8y ago
  I agree. It's definitely not perfect, and I do view the rising inequality and stagnant wages as a serious issue. I just find it alarming that when people criticize capitalism, they usually advocate for some variety of full blown socialism, which has been tried many times before and failed disastrously every single time. I don't know what the solution is. Every government intervention has the potential to distort the market and create corrupt/perverse incentives. Rent control is a great example of something that sounds nice on paper but ends up increasing housing costs as a result. I'm generally in favor of expanding the welfare state but I think we should be extremely cautious in doing so.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    Unfortunately, we seem to be stuck in this situation where we can't muster up the political will to try anything that has any elements of the dreaded "socialism". It's like a ratchet that can only go one acceptable way: More capitalism.
    - fbonetti 8y ago
      Yeah, it's unfortunate that the word "socialism" has completely lost it's meaning in the US. I don't think Americans truly comprehend how radical Socialism actually is. To compare increasing the minimum wage with Socialism is beyond absurd. Terms like "welfare state" are also loaded with negative connotations.
      - ryandrake 8y ago
        Concepts like "socialism" and "unions" have sustained a relentless smear campaign orchestrated by the right for decades. The propaganda is so bad that it's probably worse to be labeled a socialist than to be labeled a pedophile in the USA.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >I just find it alarming that when people criticize capitalism, they usually advocate for some variety of full blown socialism, which has been tried many times before and failed disastrously every single time. And yet something less than full blown socialism seems to work fine just about everywhere.

pitaj 8y ago

You're acting as if his policy suggestions were enacted across the board. In reality, we've had growing regulatory burden and other government distortion in the economy. This includes healthcare, tariffs, copyright/patents, monetary policy, endless war, the drug war, immigration restrictions, complicated tax policy, agricultural subsidies, welfare traps, and much more.