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If Wayland is the "Linux desktop" then all the advantages are gone. You do know that Wayland's design effectively destroys any choice and customization right? W

If Wayland is the "Linux desktop" then all the advantages are gone. You do know that Wayland's design effectively destroys any choice and customization right? Wayland's protocol is basically an isolation prison that requires "big DE's" and destroys choice. The protocol moves everything into one central place called the "compositor" this machinery must provide: - the window manager - the hotkey daemon -the compositing effects -the windowing server -screen reading tools -screenshots -screen casting -magnifying glass tools -global dictionary tools -etc etc etc everything. Wayland's design makes it impossible to write a portable hotkey daemon for instance. Supposedly for "security reasons". Wayland is a GNOME dev's dream, it kills the ability of people to control their own system. If you're actually excited for Wayland you either thoroughly misunderstand what it brings and just like it because it's new or you're a drooling GNOME-lover who hates customization.

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
This is FUD. One of wlroots core goals from day one has been to promote the standardization of cross-desktop protocols that allow for these features. We have already addressed two of the points you brought up, namely screenshots and screen casting, via these protocols: https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable/wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1.xml https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable... https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable/wlr-export-dmabuf-unstable-v1.xml https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable... There are several more protocols we have written and are working on to address similar concerns: https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/issues https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/issues 3 delegates from wlroots, including myself, who together represent 8 distinct Wayland compositors, are joining 3 delegates from KDE at XDC 2018 to discuss the standardization of these protocols and propose them for integration across the whole ecosystem.
- chris111 8y ago
  After 9 years there is not even anything close to a universal standard and discussion across compositors has just started this year. That's embarrassing.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
    There's already been universal standards under discussion for a long time, for example xdg-shell for application windows. The recent discussions are attempting to make more standards, and has been going on for 2 or 3 years now. This is a lot of work, we're replacing the X11 stack which has a legacy going back over 20 years.
    - chris111 8y ago
      >xdg-shell for application windows. Which is implemented by literally who? I can see a GNOME mutter commit but can't find anyone else from a few minutes of googling. Also: "As of June 2014, XDG-Shell protocol was not versioned and still prone to changes. "[1] Who else loves to build software atop unstable APIs? >The recent discussions are attempting to make more standards, and has been going on for 2 or 3 years now. These should've been going on since the begin, really makes you think what kind of intent the Wayland founders had. Wayland is being pushed as the future and there still isn't even a way to have a universal fucking screenshotter, I guess it's a security feature to be locked out of your own desktop, right? 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#XDG-Shell_protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protoc...
      - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
        >[xdg-shell] is implemented by literally who? Uh... everyone. Mutter, Kwin, qwayland, wlroots, wlc, Sway, waymonad, Way Cooler, Weston, Enlightenment, and Mir all support it, as well as clients like GTK+, Qt, GLFW, SDL, EFL... Look, you don't have to use Wayland. No one has said it's done, and Xorg still works fine. If it doesn't support everything you need, then it's not for you, no big deal.
        chris111 8y ago
        >No one has said it's done, and Xorg still works fine. Not when apps will exclusively choose to support it.
paulcarroty 8y ago
Be honest, Wayland was created mostly by Intel and Samsung developers. So, "GNOME dev's dream" just isn't relevant here.
- chris111 8y ago
  Yes it is. Who else makes Music players where you can't even select the music directory?
  - dylan-m 8y ago
    $ vim ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
  - vetinari 8y ago
    > Who else makes Music players where you can't even select the music directory? Apple? The iTunes concept proved to be popular with users.

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago

This is FUD. One of wlroots core goals from day one has been to promote the standardization of cross-desktop protocols that allow for these features. We have already addressed two of the points you brought up, namely screenshots and screen casting, via these protocols: https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable/wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1.xml https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable... https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable/wlr-export-dmabuf-unstable-v1.xml https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/blob/master/unstable... There are several more protocols we have written and are working on to address similar concerns: https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/issues https://github.com/swaywm/wlr-protocols/issues 3 delegates from wlroots, including myself, who together represent 8 distinct Wayland compositors, are joining 3 delegates from KDE at XDC 2018 to discuss the standardization of these protocols and propose them for integration across the whole ecosystem.

chris111 8y ago
After 9 years there is not even anything close to a universal standard and discussion across compositors has just started this year. That's embarrassing.
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
  There's already been universal standards under discussion for a long time, for example xdg-shell for application windows. The recent discussions are attempting to make more standards, and has been going on for 2 or 3 years now. This is a lot of work, we're replacing the X11 stack which has a legacy going back over 20 years.
  - chris111 8y ago
    >xdg-shell for application windows. Which is implemented by literally who? I can see a GNOME mutter commit but can't find anyone else from a few minutes of googling. Also: "As of June 2014, XDG-Shell protocol was not versioned and still prone to changes. "[1] Who else loves to build software atop unstable APIs? >The recent discussions are attempting to make more standards, and has been going on for 2 or 3 years now. These should've been going on since the begin, really makes you think what kind of intent the Wayland founders had. Wayland is being pushed as the future and there still isn't even a way to have a universal fucking screenshotter, I guess it's a security feature to be locked out of your own desktop, right? 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#XDG-Shell_protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protoc...
    - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
      >[xdg-shell] is implemented by literally who? Uh... everyone. Mutter, Kwin, qwayland, wlroots, wlc, Sway, waymonad, Way Cooler, Weston, Enlightenment, and Mir all support it, as well as clients like GTK+, Qt, GLFW, SDL, EFL... Look, you don't have to use Wayland. No one has said it's done, and Xorg still works fine. If it doesn't support everything you need, then it's not for you, no big deal.
      - chris111 8y ago
        >No one has said it's done, and Xorg still works fine. Not when apps will exclusively choose to support it.

paulcarroty 8y ago

Be honest, Wayland was created mostly by Intel and Samsung developers. So, "GNOME dev's dream" just isn't relevant here.

chris111 8y ago
Yes it is. Who else makes Music players where you can't even select the music directory?
- dylan-m 8y ago
  $ vim ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
- vetinari 8y ago
  > Who else makes Music players where you can't even select the music directory? Apple? The iTunes concept proved to be popular with users.