4 ms·

Market value for new grads is not $160-200k

by streblo 8y ago

gaius 8y ago
Including RSUs I presume
- streblo 8y ago
  The original post specified "no stock options".
dunpeal 8y ago
> For comparison, the average new grad offer in Silicon Valley at a FAANG company here is $160k. If you play your cards right, you can negotiate this to $190k+. OP is implying that IBM is going for the same caliber of talent as FAANG, then lowballing at the end of the process, after you spent 3 days on site. I had that happen to me with a different company in the valley so I know how frustrating it is. Personally I'd expect IBM to try to compete with FAANG, so I also understand the surprise there. Finally, OP apparently did get his $160k+ offer eventually, so he was right that IBM lowballed him.
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  Using FAANG salaries for the market value of engineers is like using Big Law salaries for the market value of lawyers. They represent a pinnacle, not a typical.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    Using FAANG comp is definitely relevant if you have FAANG-level credentials and can get an offer from a FAANG. If IBM is interviewing this type of people, they're expected to make competitive offers rather than waste everyone's time. The whole OP sounds like dictionary definition of HR dropping the ball, doing everything "corporate style", being out of touch with the market and the candidates, and then making unrealistic low offers. They deserve to be called out. Moreover, there was an article about how many companies are trying to compete with FAANG for the same talent by providing higher compensation, which corresponds with my personal experience and that of my friends. Apparently IBM decided to buck the trend.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
      > Using FAANG comp is definitely relevant if you have FAANG-level credentials and can get an offer from a FAANG. Then why bother interviewing at IBM at all?
      - dunpeal 8y ago
        Because they are a well known company, and OP assumed they could pay competitively? It happened to me personally with another company: well-known in their field, everything they communicated implied they're aware of my current offers and looking to make a competitive counteroffer. Everything goes well... Then BAM, their offer is 20% less than my lowest outstanding offer, which they knew about. Total waste of time. So I understand OP's frustration.
        kamaal 8y ago
        >>Because they are a well known company, and OP assumed they could pay competitively? There is no way IBM would pay $200K to a fresher graduating out of college. I can't imagine any company doing that. Including Amazon. In fact if you remove Ad revenue driven companies, I guess apart from Apple, nobody would pay that much.

Market value for new grads is not $160-200k

gaius 8y ago

Including RSUs I presume

streblo 8y ago
The original post specified "no stock options".

dunpeal 8y ago

> For comparison, the average new grad offer in Silicon Valley at a FAANG company here is $160k. If you play your cards right, you can negotiate this to $190k+. OP is implying that IBM is going for the same caliber of talent as FAANG, then lowballing at the end of the process, after you spent 3 days on site. I had that happen to me with a different company in the valley so I know how frustrating it is. Personally I'd expect IBM to try to compete with FAANG, so I also understand the surprise there. Finally, OP apparently did get his $160k+ offer eventually, so he was right that IBM lowballed him.

vonmoltke 8y ago
Using FAANG salaries for the market value of engineers is like using Big Law salaries for the market value of lawyers. They represent a pinnacle, not a typical.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  Using FAANG comp is definitely relevant if you have FAANG-level credentials and can get an offer from a FAANG. If IBM is interviewing this type of people, they're expected to make competitive offers rather than waste everyone's time. The whole OP sounds like dictionary definition of HR dropping the ball, doing everything "corporate style", being out of touch with the market and the candidates, and then making unrealistic low offers. They deserve to be called out. Moreover, there was an article about how many companies are trying to compete with FAANG for the same talent by providing higher compensation, which corresponds with my personal experience and that of my friends. Apparently IBM decided to buck the trend.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    > Using FAANG comp is definitely relevant if you have FAANG-level credentials and can get an offer from a FAANG. Then why bother interviewing at IBM at all?
    - dunpeal 8y ago
      Because they are a well known company, and OP assumed they could pay competitively? It happened to me personally with another company: well-known in their field, everything they communicated implied they're aware of my current offers and looking to make a competitive counteroffer. Everything goes well... Then BAM, their offer is 20% less than my lowest outstanding offer, which they knew about. Total waste of time. So I understand OP's frustration.
      - kamaal 8y ago
        >>Because they are a well known company, and OP assumed they could pay competitively? There is no way IBM would pay $200K to a fresher graduating out of college. I can't imagine any company doing that. Including Amazon. In fact if you remove Ad revenue driven companies, I guess apart from Apple, nobody would pay that much.