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Certainly for a state like Connecticut it was more about preserving the influence of a smaller state, but why would Virginia throw its support behind a plan tha

Certainly for a state like Connecticut it was more about preserving the influence of a smaller state, but why would Virginia throw its support behind a plan that would seem to weaken its own influence? Because while they were aware of that, there was more at play than racism and slavery, as Virginia voting against its interests suggests. Slightly pedantic, I could be wrong, but no serious attempts were ever made to conquer south; less than the attempts to conquer Canada, anyway. History is complex!

emodendroket 8y ago
Such as? What I am suggesting is that when we take slavery into account Virginia was not actually voting against its interests, despite surface appearances.
- aaron-lebo 8y ago
  You said it yourself in another post: they were just copying the British. The Virginians, that aristocratic lot, would have and did prefer features like the Senate, which would have provided a counterweight to the more radical House. It's that way even today. I can't speak further to the historical context, but everything I've read about federation/modern/consensus democracies suggest that bicameralism is a benefit (ex http://wikisum.com/w/Lijphart:_Patterns_of_democracy http://wikisum.com/w/Lijphart:_Patterns_of_democracy). Again, that's not saying that's what they were considering then, but also read some of the Federalist Papers (Madison in particular) and how much they were weighing factions/balance of power into some of these solutions.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    > Consensus democracies also have "kinder, gentler" traits: lower incarceration rates, less use of the death penalty, better care for the environment, more foreign aid work, and more welfare spending. Uh, I'm not convinced it's working here, chief. On the Convention count, as you can see, I find some logic in both explanations.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Slightly pedantic, I could be wrong, but no serious attempts were ever made to conquer south Florida and Texas?
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Privateers were constantly trying in places like Cuba and Nicaragua too (this practice is the origin of the term "filibustering;" look up William Walker if you're interested) but yeah the Mexican-American War is the obvious answer. Somehow I missed that paragraph when I replied earlier.

emodendroket 8y ago

Such as? What I am suggesting is that when we take slavery into account Virginia was not actually voting against its interests, despite surface appearances.

aaron-lebo 8y ago
You said it yourself in another post: they were just copying the British. The Virginians, that aristocratic lot, would have and did prefer features like the Senate, which would have provided a counterweight to the more radical House. It's that way even today. I can't speak further to the historical context, but everything I've read about federation/modern/consensus democracies suggest that bicameralism is a benefit (ex http://wikisum.com/w/Lijphart:_Patterns_of_democracy http://wikisum.com/w/Lijphart:_Patterns_of_democracy). Again, that's not saying that's what they were considering then, but also read some of the Federalist Papers (Madison in particular) and how much they were weighing factions/balance of power into some of these solutions.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  > Consensus democracies also have "kinder, gentler" traits: lower incarceration rates, less use of the death penalty, better care for the environment, more foreign aid work, and more welfare spending. Uh, I'm not convinced it's working here, chief. On the Convention count, as you can see, I find some logic in both explanations.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Slightly pedantic, I could be wrong, but no serious attempts were ever made to conquer south Florida and Texas?

emodendroket 8y ago
Privateers were constantly trying in places like Cuba and Nicaragua too (this practice is the origin of the term "filibustering;" look up William Walker if you're interested) but yeah the Mexican-American War is the obvious answer. Somehow I missed that paragraph when I replied earlier.