4 ms·

For starters they can't really pay market salaries for the skills they need so to some degree this has more to do with laws on the books than with management an

by qaq 8y ago

For starters they can't really pay market salaries for the skills they need so to some degree this has more to do with laws on the books than with management and organizational failures.

repolfx 8y ago
Bingo. Larger budgets get poured into more people not better people.
mikec3010 8y ago
But they have no qualms about paying "market rate" to defense contractors to build all their toys.
- qaq 8y ago
  How is that relevant ?
  - mikec3010 8y ago
    Shows a contradiction/hypocrisy. They have the money, but just choose to spend it on corporations and not humans.
    - qaq 8y ago
      Again there a laws that cap gov. employee salaries they are not passed by CIA or NSA or whatever other 3 letter agency.
    - pc86 8y ago
      No, it shows that unfortunately you don't know what you're talking about. Federal employee salaries are set by legislation and may not be changed. They can't get bonuses or anything else. Contracts are bid and are paid out of completely different budgets.
      - hunterjumper06 8y ago
        Yes, we actually can get yearly bonuses though they are minimal and tied to the performance rating process and tenure to the agency (at least at my agency). For those that are interested, I’d check out the General Schedule pay scales on the Office of Personnel Management’s (OPM) website. OPM is the agency responsible for providing guidance to federal agencies on all matters related to HR. OPM’s pay scales: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2018/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... However, some agencies have gotten special permission from Congress to use another pay scale which was designed to allow agencies to pay for performance rather than guaranteed raises over time. Though I’ve heard that it doesn’t always work the way it was intended. I was actually initially offered a lot lower salary at another agency that used the pay for performance than my current agency that uses the General Schedule scale. For general reference: GS-7: B.A./B.S. and GS-9: Master’s. For all intelligence positions, you are required to pass and maintain a Top Secret/Special Compartmented Information clearance which takes about a year these days due to backlog. This hinders the agencies ability to recruit top talent. I recommend checking out the SF-86 Questionnaire for National Security Positions if you want to see what all is asked. Right now, I could switch to the private sector and make a lot more than I am making now. But I stay because I believe in the mission and work of my agency. I get to do things that I would never get to do in the private sector. Maybe one day I will switch but for right now I am staying.
        pc86 8y ago
        The "S" in SCI stands for Sensitive, not Special. You might be thinking of Special Access Programs.
        hunterjumper06 8y ago
        Yes! Thanks for the correction. I am so used to the acronym soup that I occasionally slip up on definitions. Lol!
        pc86 8y ago
    - GVIrish 8y ago
      That's a situation created by Congress, not federal agencies. Federal agencies with dire needs for high demand/high pay skills would love nothing more than to be able to hire full-time employees at market rates but it is very difficult for them to do so because of the federal pay scale and hiring guidelines. It's part of the whole charade of smaller government. The number of actual government employees is reduced but then the government pays contracting companies 2x or 3x (or more) for contractors and ends up with same number of butts in seats.
      - mikec3010 8y ago
        > but then the government pays... That's my point. They have the money, but something-something..."policy"...something-something.... It goes to corporations instead of people.
        qaq 8y ago
        Who are "they" in this case? If you think there is broad electoral support for removing government pay caps I have a bridge to sell you :).
        mikec3010 8y ago
        The same "they" you are referring to. The ones writing the checks. I don't care about the precise technicality that enables wage suppression. I literally don't care. The constitution also says no spying on Americans, but somehow that precise word of law was elided. The bottom line is: they have billions, they suppress wages for employees, and they enrich billion dollar contracting firms. Nothing I claim is untrue.
        qaq 8y ago
        Yes that technicality is called democracy oh well
edm0nd 8y ago
That's why agencies like the FBl just raid people and then flip them into Confidential Human Sources (CHS). They dont have to pay them anything and use the threat of jail time in exchange for skills/information.
- EthanHeilman 8y ago
  ... and they gain deniability if the sources do anything unethical which in turns gives them more leverage over the source.

by qaq 8y ago

For starters they can't really pay market salaries for the skills they need so to some degree this has more to do with laws on the books than with management and organizational failures.

repolfx 8y ago

Bingo. Larger budgets get poured into more people not better people.

mikec3010 8y ago

But they have no qualms about paying "market rate" to defense contractors to build all their toys.

qaq 8y ago
How is that relevant ?
- mikec3010 8y ago
  Shows a contradiction/hypocrisy. They have the money, but just choose to spend it on corporations and not humans.
  - qaq 8y ago
    Again there a laws that cap gov. employee salaries they are not passed by CIA or NSA or whatever other 3 letter agency.
  - pc86 8y ago
    No, it shows that unfortunately you don't know what you're talking about. Federal employee salaries are set by legislation and may not be changed. They can't get bonuses or anything else. Contracts are bid and are paid out of completely different budgets.
    - hunterjumper06 8y ago
      Yes, we actually can get yearly bonuses though they are minimal and tied to the performance rating process and tenure to the agency (at least at my agency). For those that are interested, I’d check out the General Schedule pay scales on the Office of Personnel Management’s (OPM) website. OPM is the agency responsible for providing guidance to federal agencies on all matters related to HR. OPM’s pay scales: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2018/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... However, some agencies have gotten special permission from Congress to use another pay scale which was designed to allow agencies to pay for performance rather than guaranteed raises over time. Though I’ve heard that it doesn’t always work the way it was intended. I was actually initially offered a lot lower salary at another agency that used the pay for performance than my current agency that uses the General Schedule scale. For general reference: GS-7: B.A./B.S. and GS-9: Master’s. For all intelligence positions, you are required to pass and maintain a Top Secret/Special Compartmented Information clearance which takes about a year these days due to backlog. This hinders the agencies ability to recruit top talent. I recommend checking out the SF-86 Questionnaire for National Security Positions if you want to see what all is asked. Right now, I could switch to the private sector and make a lot more than I am making now. But I stay because I believe in the mission and work of my agency. I get to do things that I would never get to do in the private sector. Maybe one day I will switch but for right now I am staying.
      - pc86 8y ago
        The "S" in SCI stands for Sensitive, not Special. You might be thinking of Special Access Programs.
        hunterjumper06 8y ago
        Yes! Thanks for the correction. I am so used to the acronym soup that I occasionally slip up on definitions. Lol!
        pc86 8y ago
  - GVIrish 8y ago
    That's a situation created by Congress, not federal agencies. Federal agencies with dire needs for high demand/high pay skills would love nothing more than to be able to hire full-time employees at market rates but it is very difficult for them to do so because of the federal pay scale and hiring guidelines. It's part of the whole charade of smaller government. The number of actual government employees is reduced but then the government pays contracting companies 2x or 3x (or more) for contractors and ends up with same number of butts in seats.
    - mikec3010 8y ago
      > but then the government pays... That's my point. They have the money, but something-something..."policy"...something-something.... It goes to corporations instead of people.
      - qaq 8y ago
        Who are "they" in this case? If you think there is broad electoral support for removing government pay caps I have a bridge to sell you :).
        mikec3010 8y ago
        The same "they" you are referring to. The ones writing the checks. I don't care about the precise technicality that enables wage suppression. I literally don't care. The constitution also says no spying on Americans, but somehow that precise word of law was elided. The bottom line is: they have billions, they suppress wages for employees, and they enrich billion dollar contracting firms. Nothing I claim is untrue.
        qaq 8y ago
        Yes that technicality is called democracy oh well

edm0nd 8y ago

That's why agencies like the FBl just raid people and then flip them into Confidential Human Sources (CHS). They dont have to pay them anything and use the threat of jail time in exchange for skills/information.

EthanHeilman 8y ago
... and they gain deniability if the sources do anything unethical which in turns gives them more leverage over the source.