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I was accepted into the Georgia Tech CS masters program without any formal education in CS. I have significant practical work experience though. If you don't ha

I was accepted into the Georgia Tech CS masters program without any formal education in CS. I have significant practical work experience though. If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? If you don't want to get an undergrad degree, at this point in time that has some logic to it, but you are committing to a path where you will not be getting formal degrees. There are things like Coursera specializations that can provide training and some level of certification.

jamestimmins 8y ago
Fair point. I actually have an undergrad degree. I'm mostly arguing that as we have straightforward ways of addressing knowledge and ability via courses online (at a low cost to institutions), then admittance should be based on that ability rather than potentially dated proxies (college grades).
marcoperaza 8y ago
>If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? Why shouldn't it be? I don't see why 3 years worth of miscellaneous classes and 1 year worth of classes toward a major (not even necessarily in computer science) should be a prerequisite for a cybersecurity program, or for any masters program for that matter. It just seems like another part of the false mythology of undergraduate education. And I'm sure the people running these credential rackets realize that allowing students to cut to the point would put an end to their gravy train.
- close04 8y ago
  Even the name of the degree, masters, implies that this is for mastering that subject. I personally take that as a hint that (in general) you should already be intimately acquainted to it before mastering it. Those years for the bachelor don't just prove you learned some random subjects. They also show that you deliver - you have a topic, you study it, you pass the exam. The reason you say "I don't need that" is because you have to pay a crapload of money for those 3 years with a dubious ROI. It's a credential racket because they charge you through your nose. And it's cheaper now because online is cheaper. But it's unrealistic to assume you get the same quality for less money, it would sink their normal masters business right? Lots of things are debatable here especially if you dig into the exceptions but generally it might be the difference between takeout/fast food and a good restaurant. When I see people skipping some degrees and going for the online ones they have to show some damn good practical achievements to convince me that was time worth saving. I'm pretty sure most of you would refuse to go to a doctor who studied online. Cyber-security can easily turn out to be life or death.
  - icelancer 8y ago
    If you are mid-30s with 100+ semester credits done in your Bachelor's Degree, but can't go back to finish it because many of the credits have expired, the idea that you'd have to re-finish the degree just to sit for a Master's Degree when you turn 40 is ridiculous. Plenty of people have been admitted to MS programs without a BS/BA when they prove why they're the exception. Serious private sector work fills in the gaps easily. MBA programs are no different.
    - close04 8y ago
      > If you are mid-30s [...] That's an oddly specific case. But as I said, digging into the exceptions will always find something to support any point of view. I'm looking at the overall situation. In most cases the degree can be compensated with work experience. > Plenty of people have been admitted to MS programs without a BS/BA [...] This of course is entirely up to the program. Most PhD programs require both, some require only one. What I said is that I (personally) see this as a natural progression. Skipping one will have to come with a damn good reason attached. Like exceptional performance otherwise. > MBA programs are no different. Again, personal opinion, I trust the MBA program the least of all. I have seen so many people (including a lot of colleagues) dish out several (tens of) thousands of Euros to get an MBA while still in their 20s, with only some mediocre team-leader over 4-5 people for 2 years experience behind them that I simply cannot put any kind of weight in that achievement.
    - vultour 8y ago
      If you are mid-30s then you will have no problem getting into these courses just based on your work experience.
    - hacym 8y ago
      I think that the case you're describing is the exact reason this requirement is important. Lacking credits in an undergraduate degree is a red flag -- why are you missing them? Why didn't you go back and make them up? If you're serious about a formal education, the lack of a few credits shouldn't hold you back.
- philipodonnell 8y ago
  You seem predisposed to conclude that degrees are merely signaling devices, and if you believe that about undergraduate degrees then you should also believe that about masters degrees and should avoid this program. But if you believe that masters degrees have value beyond signaling, then the thinking is that a formal multi-year undergraduate course of study that ensures a minimum knowledge core on a topic will better prepare you for a formal multi-year graduate course of study on that topic than simply working in the field and acquiring a random assortment of specific skills based on what you needed on the jobs that you took.
  - marcoperaza 8y ago
    A few points: * Even to the extent that degrees are just signaling devices, they are still useful because many people with power over your career care a lot about those signals. * If you choose a useful major, that one-years-worth of your undergraduate education certainly has utilitarian value in preparing you for a related career or for further instruction. * The other three-years-worth of courses may make you more worldly and well-rounded, but their instructional value is nowhere near the $150,000 you'll pay for them at a private university. >the thinking is that a formal multi-year undergraduate course of study that ensures a minimum knowledge core on a topic will better prepare you for a formal multi-year graduate course of study on that topic than simply working in the field and acquiring a random assortment of specific skills based on what you needed on the jobs that you took. * Yes, of course, but this only applies to the quarter of the undergraduate courses that are actually relevant. It doesn’t explain why should you need three years worth of courses in underwater basketweaving or gender studies as a prerequisite to a masters in cybersecurity.

jamestimmins 8y ago

Fair point. I actually have an undergrad degree. I'm mostly arguing that as we have straightforward ways of addressing knowledge and ability via courses online (at a low cost to institutions), then admittance should be based on that ability rather than potentially dated proxies (college grades).

marcoperaza 8y ago

>If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? Why shouldn't it be? I don't see why 3 years worth of miscellaneous classes and 1 year worth of classes toward a major (not even necessarily in computer science) should be a prerequisite for a cybersecurity program, or for any masters program for that matter. It just seems like another part of the false mythology of undergraduate education. And I'm sure the people running these credential rackets realize that allowing students to cut to the point would put an end to their gravy train.

close04 8y ago
Even the name of the degree, masters, implies that this is for mastering that subject. I personally take that as a hint that (in general) you should already be intimately acquainted to it before mastering it. Those years for the bachelor don't just prove you learned some random subjects. They also show that you deliver - you have a topic, you study it, you pass the exam. The reason you say "I don't need that" is because you have to pay a crapload of money for those 3 years with a dubious ROI. It's a credential racket because they charge you through your nose. And it's cheaper now because online is cheaper. But it's unrealistic to assume you get the same quality for less money, it would sink their normal masters business right? Lots of things are debatable here especially if you dig into the exceptions but generally it might be the difference between takeout/fast food and a good restaurant. When I see people skipping some degrees and going for the online ones they have to show some damn good practical achievements to convince me that was time worth saving. I'm pretty sure most of you would refuse to go to a doctor who studied online. Cyber-security can easily turn out to be life or death.
- icelancer 8y ago
  If you are mid-30s with 100+ semester credits done in your Bachelor's Degree, but can't go back to finish it because many of the credits have expired, the idea that you'd have to re-finish the degree just to sit for a Master's Degree when you turn 40 is ridiculous. Plenty of people have been admitted to MS programs without a BS/BA when they prove why they're the exception. Serious private sector work fills in the gaps easily. MBA programs are no different.
  - close04 8y ago
    > If you are mid-30s [...] That's an oddly specific case. But as I said, digging into the exceptions will always find something to support any point of view. I'm looking at the overall situation. In most cases the degree can be compensated with work experience. > Plenty of people have been admitted to MS programs without a BS/BA [...] This of course is entirely up to the program. Most PhD programs require both, some require only one. What I said is that I (personally) see this as a natural progression. Skipping one will have to come with a damn good reason attached. Like exceptional performance otherwise. > MBA programs are no different. Again, personal opinion, I trust the MBA program the least of all. I have seen so many people (including a lot of colleagues) dish out several (tens of) thousands of Euros to get an MBA while still in their 20s, with only some mediocre team-leader over 4-5 people for 2 years experience behind them that I simply cannot put any kind of weight in that achievement.
  - vultour 8y ago
    If you are mid-30s then you will have no problem getting into these courses just based on your work experience.
  - hacym 8y ago
    I think that the case you're describing is the exact reason this requirement is important. Lacking credits in an undergraduate degree is a red flag -- why are you missing them? Why didn't you go back and make them up? If you're serious about a formal education, the lack of a few credits shouldn't hold you back.
philipodonnell 8y ago
You seem predisposed to conclude that degrees are merely signaling devices, and if you believe that about undergraduate degrees then you should also believe that about masters degrees and should avoid this program. But if you believe that masters degrees have value beyond signaling, then the thinking is that a formal multi-year undergraduate course of study that ensures a minimum knowledge core on a topic will better prepare you for a formal multi-year graduate course of study on that topic than simply working in the field and acquiring a random assortment of specific skills based on what you needed on the jobs that you took.
- marcoperaza 8y ago
  A few points: * Even to the extent that degrees are just signaling devices, they are still useful because many people with power over your career care a lot about those signals. * If you choose a useful major, that one-years-worth of your undergraduate education certainly has utilitarian value in preparing you for a related career or for further instruction. * The other three-years-worth of courses may make you more worldly and well-rounded, but their instructional value is nowhere near the $150,000 you'll pay for them at a private university. >the thinking is that a formal multi-year undergraduate course of study that ensures a minimum knowledge core on a topic will better prepare you for a formal multi-year graduate course of study on that topic than simply working in the field and acquiring a random assortment of specific skills based on what you needed on the jobs that you took. * Yes, of course, but this only applies to the quarter of the undergraduate courses that are actually relevant. It doesn’t explain why should you need three years worth of courses in underwater basketweaving or gender studies as a prerequisite to a masters in cybersecurity.