6 ms·

While these degrees are interesting, they still have the same entrance requirements as on-campus programs (transcripts, references, undergrad degree). This is a

While these degrees are interesting, they still have the same entrance requirements as on-campus programs (transcripts, references, undergrad degree). This is a shame bc there are many people, especially in software engineering, who have the skills yet lack adequate proof of those skills. I'd love if there were a CS masters that either let you apply directly or complete a specification to get automatic admission. Perhaps after completing foundational courses with a B average. That would greatly increase access and should be sufficient to weed out unprepared candidates.

petrbela 8y ago
There have definitely been a number of students admitted to the GT's OMSCS program who didn't have an engineering undergraduate degree. Not sure though what are the stats of students without any bachelor's degree at all... There is a requirement to complete a few foundational courses after you enroll but you still need to be accepted first.
- sinnet11 8y ago
  where have you read this?
  - petrbela 8y ago
    Some of those without an engineering undergrad degree were my classmates.
lu5t 8y ago
Once you get to a reasonable level of career experience, college is not beneficial for your bottom line. At least that's been my experience.
- jamestimmins 8y ago
  Do you mean undergrad or masters?
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    I would assume both. That's my experience.
- pfranz 8y ago
  I think this varies greatly by industry (maybe what I'm talking about is 20 years outdated). I know quite a few boomers who worked on their Masters / PhD while raising kids and working. From what I've been told it's because their careers were limited by their existing level of education. For example, most K-12 teachers get a pay boost by completing their Masters. My career is software dev adjacent and I haven't seen college being a limiting factor.
tzs 8y ago
Sounds like you want something similar to WGU, although specifically for CS they don't meet your requirements because they only have a BS degree program. https://www.wgu.edu/# https://www.wgu.edu/# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University
phyller 8y ago
I was accepted into the Georgia Tech CS masters program without any formal education in CS. I have significant practical work experience though. If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? If you don't want to get an undergrad degree, at this point in time that has some logic to it, but you are committing to a path where you will not be getting formal degrees. There are things like Coursera specializations that can provide training and some level of certification.
- jamestimmins 8y ago
  Fair point. I actually have an undergrad degree. I'm mostly arguing that as we have straightforward ways of addressing knowledge and ability via courses online (at a low cost to institutions), then admittance should be based on that ability rather than potentially dated proxies (college grades).
- marcoperaza 8y ago
  >If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? Why shouldn't it be? I don't see why 3 years worth of miscellaneous classes and 1 year worth of classes toward a major (not even necessarily in computer science) should be a prerequisite for a cybersecurity program, or for any masters program for that matter. It just seems like another part of the false mythology of undergraduate education. And I'm sure the people running these credential rackets realize that allowing students to cut to the point would put an end to their gravy train.
  - close04 8y ago
    Even the name of the degree, masters, implies that this is for mastering that subject. I personally take that as a hint that (in general) you should already be intimately acquainted to it before mastering it. Those years for the bachelor don't just prove you learned some random subjects. They also show that you deliver - you have a topic, you study it, you pass the exam. The reason you say "I don't need that" is because you have to pay a crapload of money for those 3 years with a dubious ROI. It's a credential racket because they charge you through your nose. And it's cheaper now because online is cheaper. But it's unrealistic to assume you get the same quality for less money, it would sink their normal masters business right? Lots of things are debatable here especially if you dig into the exceptions but generally it might be the difference between takeout/fast food and a good restaurant. When I see people skipping some degrees and going for the online ones they have to show some damn good practical achievements to convince me that was time worth saving. I'm pretty sure most of you would refuse to go to a doctor who studied online. Cyber-security can easily turn out to be life or death.
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barry-cotter 8y ago
https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-software-engineering?wssl=1 https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-softwar... University of Oxford Master’s in Software Engineering ... However, more extensive experience may compensate for a lack of formal qualifications, and a strong, immediately-relevant qualification may compensate for a lack of professional experience.
nebulous1 8y ago
The vast majority of universities consider a master's degree to be a post-graduate degree so they'll require an bachelor's degree to enter it. There are plenty of cyber security courses either at undergraduate level or outside of the university system altogether.
nhunter 8y ago
I have a diploma in CS, but not a bachelors degree, but 10+ years of practical engineering experience. I'd love to work towards a masters in CS, but most online schools don't accept my diploma and work experience as equivalent. I attempted to apply for a GT online masters and was soundly rejected without consideration. There are always ways around, and candidates that should be considered based on potential. But some kind of a qualifier, even a certificate, that would allow candidates like myself that would love to be engaged through some kind of qualifier or conditional acceptance would allow more people to get engaged and show their ability and commitment to being successful.
- MoBattah 8y ago
  What about WGU?
hacym 8y ago
I don't have an undergraduate degree in CS or engineering and was accepted with about 5 years of software development experience. If you're saying that you think people should be able to attend a graduate degree program without an undergraduate degree, then that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. There is a long established precedent that (formal, possibly legal requirements, too?) you must have an undergraduate degree to take the next step in your education. You either want the formal education or don't -- if you do, then you have to meet the pretty standard requirements.
loco5niner 8y ago
You're advocating for admission to a graduate program without an undergraduate degree. It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. Possession of a masters degree indicates you have completed a prescribed course of study.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > You're advocating for admission to a graduate program without an undergraduate degree. It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. There are BS/MS, BA/MA, BBA/MBA, and BSL/JD programs (asking others) that do not require a prior undergraduate degree but instead incorporate a same-field undergrad degree into the graduate out professional program, with typically less total coursework and tone in residence than separate programs would require because of right integration. > Possession of a masters degree indicates you have completed a prescribed course of study. Yes, but there's no reason that a bachelor's degree needs to be an admission requirements for that to work; it may be a completion requirement, but that doesn't mean it needs to be an admission requirement.
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    Yes, I should have chosen the word "completion" rather than "admission". The comment I was replying to was saying, in effect, "I want to be able to earn a graduate degree without having to earn an undergraduate degree". Those programs sound great. They would allow a person to EARN both the graduate degree and the underlying undergrad.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > The comment I was replying to was saying, in effect, "I want to be able to earn a graduate degree without having to earn an undergraduate degree". That comment specifically complained about entrance requirements, so, no, I don't think that is a fair characterization.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

petrbela 8y ago

There have definitely been a number of students admitted to the GT's OMSCS program who didn't have an engineering undergraduate degree. Not sure though what are the stats of students without any bachelor's degree at all... There is a requirement to complete a few foundational courses after you enroll but you still need to be accepted first.

sinnet11 8y ago
where have you read this?
- petrbela 8y ago
  Some of those without an engineering undergrad degree were my classmates.

lu5t 8y ago

Once you get to a reasonable level of career experience, college is not beneficial for your bottom line. At least that's been my experience.

jamestimmins 8y ago
Do you mean undergrad or masters?
- loco5niner 8y ago
  I would assume both. That's my experience.
pfranz 8y ago
I think this varies greatly by industry (maybe what I'm talking about is 20 years outdated). I know quite a few boomers who worked on their Masters / PhD while raising kids and working. From what I've been told it's because their careers were limited by their existing level of education. For example, most K-12 teachers get a pay boost by completing their Masters. My career is software dev adjacent and I haven't seen college being a limiting factor.

tzs 8y ago

Sounds like you want something similar to WGU, although specifically for CS they don't meet your requirements because they only have a BS degree program. https://www.wgu.edu/# https://www.wgu.edu/# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University

phyller 8y ago

I was accepted into the Georgia Tech CS masters program without any formal education in CS. I have significant practical work experience though. If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? If you don't want to get an undergrad degree, at this point in time that has some logic to it, but you are committing to a path where you will not be getting formal degrees. There are things like Coursera specializations that can provide training and some level of certification.

jamestimmins 8y ago
Fair point. I actually have an undergrad degree. I'm mostly arguing that as we have straightforward ways of addressing knowledge and ability via courses online (at a low cost to institutions), then admittance should be based on that ability rather than potentially dated proxies (college grades).
marcoperaza 8y ago
>If you don't have an undergrad degree at all, I'm not sure a master's degree is appropriate? Why shouldn't it be? I don't see why 3 years worth of miscellaneous classes and 1 year worth of classes toward a major (not even necessarily in computer science) should be a prerequisite for a cybersecurity program, or for any masters program for that matter. It just seems like another part of the false mythology of undergraduate education. And I'm sure the people running these credential rackets realize that allowing students to cut to the point would put an end to their gravy train.
- close04 8y ago
  Even the name of the degree, masters, implies that this is for mastering that subject. I personally take that as a hint that (in general) you should already be intimately acquainted to it before mastering it. Those years for the bachelor don't just prove you learned some random subjects. They also show that you deliver - you have a topic, you study it, you pass the exam. The reason you say "I don't need that" is because you have to pay a crapload of money for those 3 years with a dubious ROI. It's a credential racket because they charge you through your nose. And it's cheaper now because online is cheaper. But it's unrealistic to assume you get the same quality for less money, it would sink their normal masters business right? Lots of things are debatable here especially if you dig into the exceptions but generally it might be the difference between takeout/fast food and a good restaurant. When I see people skipping some degrees and going for the online ones they have to show some damn good practical achievements to convince me that was time worth saving. I'm pretty sure most of you would refuse to go to a doctor who studied online. Cyber-security can easily turn out to be life or death.

deleted 8y ago

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deleted 8y ago

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barry-cotter 8y ago

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-software-engineering?wssl=1 https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-softwar... University of Oxford Master’s in Software Engineering ... However, more extensive experience may compensate for a lack of formal qualifications, and a strong, immediately-relevant qualification may compensate for a lack of professional experience.

nebulous1 8y ago

The vast majority of universities consider a master's degree to be a post-graduate degree so they'll require an bachelor's degree to enter it. There are plenty of cyber security courses either at undergraduate level or outside of the university system altogether.

nhunter 8y ago

I have a diploma in CS, but not a bachelors degree, but 10+ years of practical engineering experience. I'd love to work towards a masters in CS, but most online schools don't accept my diploma and work experience as equivalent. I attempted to apply for a GT online masters and was soundly rejected without consideration. There are always ways around, and candidates that should be considered based on potential. But some kind of a qualifier, even a certificate, that would allow candidates like myself that would love to be engaged through some kind of qualifier or conditional acceptance would allow more people to get engaged and show their ability and commitment to being successful.

MoBattah 8y ago
What about WGU?

hacym 8y ago

I don't have an undergraduate degree in CS or engineering and was accepted with about 5 years of software development experience. If you're saying that you think people should be able to attend a graduate degree program without an undergraduate degree, then that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. There is a long established precedent that (formal, possibly legal requirements, too?) you must have an undergraduate degree to take the next step in your education. You either want the formal education or don't -- if you do, then you have to meet the pretty standard requirements.

loco5niner 8y ago

You're advocating for admission to a graduate program without an undergraduate degree. It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. Possession of a masters degree indicates you have completed a prescribed course of study.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> You're advocating for admission to a graduate program without an undergraduate degree. It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. There are BS/MS, BA/MA, BBA/MBA, and BSL/JD programs (asking others) that do not require a prior undergraduate degree but instead incorporate a same-field undergrad degree into the graduate out professional program, with typically less total coursework and tone in residence than separate programs would require because of right integration. > Possession of a masters degree indicates you have completed a prescribed course of study. Yes, but there's no reason that a bachelor's degree needs to be an admission requirements for that to work; it may be a completion requirement, but that doesn't mean it needs to be an admission requirement.
- loco5niner 8y ago
  Yes, I should have chosen the word "completion" rather than "admission". The comment I was replying to was saying, in effect, "I want to be able to earn a graduate degree without having to earn an undergraduate degree". Those programs sound great. They would allow a person to EARN both the graduate degree and the underlying undergrad.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > The comment I was replying to was saying, in effect, "I want to be able to earn a graduate degree without having to earn an undergraduate degree". That comment specifically complained about entrance requirements, so, no, I don't think that is a fair characterization.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]