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I still almost can't believe that he'd be that reckless. He must have known how such a move -- and especially the "funding secured" tweet (where he doubled down

I still almost can't believe that he'd be that reckless. He must have known how such a move -- and especially the "funding secured" tweet (where he doubled down with the going private certain pending shareholder vote) -- will be received but the SEC. Nothing gained, but instead an SEC investigation, numerous lawsuits, and even more short selling than before.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dunpeal 8y ago
Me neither. My own comments here on HN when the story broke were very positive and impressed for that very reason: it would have been a great feat, buying back the company at 20% above than its present value, especially when he said early investors would have the option to stay in. It seemed like such a great move, the only problem being how to raise such a huge amount of money. But then he tweeted "funding secured", so that's very solid... I mean, he's a CEO, he knows securities law, he would never post something like that without good reason, right...? Now it just looks like one of his worst blunders. I believe most people don't even realize how bad it is yet. Based on all I'm reading, the SEC has a strong case, and so do the civil lawsuits. I'm not a psychologist, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like the type of ego-driven blunder you can only make when you're surrounded by people who worship at your feet 24/7.
- coatmatter 8y ago
  It's hard to tell whether something is too good to be true in these unusual news cycles and market conditions. The market wasn't sure either (not that the market is always rational but I digress). Not only does it now appear to be one of his worst blunders, but it appears to come after a series of self-inflicted blunders. I really thought the false "pedo" accusation was completely awful for someone of his apparent standing, but even that seems to pale in consequence to what could now be ahead. If he thought things were hard then, they've only just gotten 10 times harder than ever before now. All because of "one"* Tweet. * More than one Tweet really; there's a pattern of behaviour here.
docker_up 8y ago
After his erratic behavior over the last few months, I find it totally believable. There is something going on with him, and he is not acting normal. Something has affected his decision-making abilities and if I were an investor (I'm not but I'm a Tesla-owner) I would be very worried.
- goodells 8y ago
  Could you provide more specific examples of his not acting normal? It’s not something I keep up with so I’m not necessarily saying you’re wrong, just curious what this looks like from the public’s viewpoint.
  - Atheros 8y ago
    There's the cave submarine incident from a month ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/business/elon-musk-vern-unsworth-pedo-guy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/business/elon-musk-vern-u...
  - coatmatter 8y ago
    What's not normal for other CEOs might be considered normal for Musk - it's hard to tell exactly where to start. Aside from all the unusual things that have been happening of late with his public Twittosphere and the like [1], there might also be the question of whether his personal life is affecting his professional life [2] in addition to that NY Times interview where he reportedly admitted to writing the "Funding secured" tweet while driving to the airport, and also needing Ambien (zolpidem) to sleep.[3] Now just to apply a skeptic's hat for a moment; assuming that there is anything false in these reports of late, one would be expecting lawsuits being launched by Musk over slander or libel. The weeks ahead are going to be interesting either way. [1] https://www.vox.com/2018/8/16/17692700/azealia-banks-elon-musk-grimes-explained https://www.vox.com/2018/8/16/17692700/azealia-banks-elon-mu... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/who-is-amber-heard-dating-elon-musk-2017-4 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/who-is-amber-heard-dating... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/business/elon-musk-interview-tesla.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/business/elon-musk-interv...
GW150914 8y ago
The SEC is no joke, and while it’s probably not the most likely outcome, prison time is on the table here. Elon Musk really, truly fucked up and I agree it’s hard to believe. Then again he called someone who just helped rescue over a dozen people a pedo on the same platform, so maybe something is genuinely wrong with him? Love him, hate him, or indifferent, I think everyone accepts that he’s very bright. Given that, there must be some other explanation for risking prison so casually for no good reason. Sleep, stress, mental health, or something shady seems like the only likely possibilities for such a weird risk.
jacquesm 8y ago
Musk has been slowly going off the rails for the last year and a half. The SolarCity bailout (I can't see it as anything else) seems to have put a dent in his armor that he still hasn't recovered from, and if he keeps going like he does right now it isn't going to end well. Martha Stewart got booked for less ($45K and change).
bodas 8y ago
If Tesla were a normal company, Musk would have been fired long ago. There was that conference call when he just stopped answering questions because he didn't like them. Or the "pedo" tweet last month when he decided to accuse that diver of being a pedophile because he's resident in Thailand. The only reason Musk was CEO long enough to potentially commit securities fraud is that he indispensable to the company, not because of his suitability for the role. Tesla should definitely fire him now, but you know what... I don't think they will.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  This appears to be the case. One of the articles about the possibility of Tesla going private mentioned most of Tesla's board members are Musk's longtime acquaintances and friends: > But it has to be a truly independent committee, with the ability to reject a deal, Mr. Cox said. “This becomes very problematic at Tesla” because many of the board members have longstanding relationships with Mr. Musk, he added. https://www.wsj.com/articles/musks-tweets-on-tesla-buyout-face-scrutiny-after-saudi-disclosure-1534244400 https://www.wsj.com/articles/musks-tweets-on-tesla-buyout-fa... The more I learn about this issue, the more it seems like a corruption of capitalism: a celebrity CEO running a public company like it was his own private playground. You can see how the fantasies of "taking Tesla private" figure into this puzzle.
  - mrep 8y ago
    You all make fair points but I definitely don't think it is "corruption of capitalism". I doubt spacex or tesla would be worth nearly as much as they currently are without him because he is a master marketer. They got tens if not hundreds of thousands of people to line up to buy a car years off from production. They also get people to work for them doing 60 hour weeks because they love the mission that he is trying to achieve (source, my brother who worked for tesla and did 60 hour weeks). On "taking Tesla private", I don't blame him considering the mission each company is trying to achieve will take a long time and spacex doesn't really get much bad press much whereas tesla is constantly hammered which would be demoralizing if I worked there.
    - 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dunpeal 8y ago

Me neither. My own comments here on HN when the story broke were very positive and impressed for that very reason: it would have been a great feat, buying back the company at 20% above than its present value, especially when he said early investors would have the option to stay in. It seemed like such a great move, the only problem being how to raise such a huge amount of money. But then he tweeted "funding secured", so that's very solid... I mean, he's a CEO, he knows securities law, he would never post something like that without good reason, right...? Now it just looks like one of his worst blunders. I believe most people don't even realize how bad it is yet. Based on all I'm reading, the SEC has a strong case, and so do the civil lawsuits. I'm not a psychologist, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like the type of ego-driven blunder you can only make when you're surrounded by people who worship at your feet 24/7.

coatmatter 8y ago
It's hard to tell whether something is too good to be true in these unusual news cycles and market conditions. The market wasn't sure either (not that the market is always rational but I digress). Not only does it now appear to be one of his worst blunders, but it appears to come after a series of self-inflicted blunders. I really thought the false "pedo" accusation was completely awful for someone of his apparent standing, but even that seems to pale in consequence to what could now be ahead. If he thought things were hard then, they've only just gotten 10 times harder than ever before now. All because of "one"* Tweet. * More than one Tweet really; there's a pattern of behaviour here.

docker_up 8y ago

After his erratic behavior over the last few months, I find it totally believable. There is something going on with him, and he is not acting normal. Something has affected his decision-making abilities and if I were an investor (I'm not but I'm a Tesla-owner) I would be very worried.

goodells 8y ago
Could you provide more specific examples of his not acting normal? It’s not something I keep up with so I’m not necessarily saying you’re wrong, just curious what this looks like from the public’s viewpoint.
- Atheros 8y ago
  There's the cave submarine incident from a month ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/business/elon-musk-vern-unsworth-pedo-guy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/business/elon-musk-vern-u...
- coatmatter 8y ago
  What's not normal for other CEOs might be considered normal for Musk - it's hard to tell exactly where to start. Aside from all the unusual things that have been happening of late with his public Twittosphere and the like [1], there might also be the question of whether his personal life is affecting his professional life [2] in addition to that NY Times interview where he reportedly admitted to writing the "Funding secured" tweet while driving to the airport, and also needing Ambien (zolpidem) to sleep.[3] Now just to apply a skeptic's hat for a moment; assuming that there is anything false in these reports of late, one would be expecting lawsuits being launched by Musk over slander or libel. The weeks ahead are going to be interesting either way. [1] https://www.vox.com/2018/8/16/17692700/azealia-banks-elon-musk-grimes-explained https://www.vox.com/2018/8/16/17692700/azealia-banks-elon-mu... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/who-is-amber-heard-dating-elon-musk-2017-4 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/who-is-amber-heard-dating... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/business/elon-musk-interview-tesla.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/business/elon-musk-interv...

GW150914 8y ago

The SEC is no joke, and while it’s probably not the most likely outcome, prison time is on the table here. Elon Musk really, truly fucked up and I agree it’s hard to believe. Then again he called someone who just helped rescue over a dozen people a pedo on the same platform, so maybe something is genuinely wrong with him? Love him, hate him, or indifferent, I think everyone accepts that he’s very bright. Given that, there must be some other explanation for risking prison so casually for no good reason. Sleep, stress, mental health, or something shady seems like the only likely possibilities for such a weird risk.

jacquesm 8y ago

Musk has been slowly going off the rails for the last year and a half. The SolarCity bailout (I can't see it as anything else) seems to have put a dent in his armor that he still hasn't recovered from, and if he keeps going like he does right now it isn't going to end well. Martha Stewart got booked for less ($45K and change).

bodas 8y ago

If Tesla were a normal company, Musk would have been fired long ago. There was that conference call when he just stopped answering questions because he didn't like them. Or the "pedo" tweet last month when he decided to accuse that diver of being a pedophile because he's resident in Thailand. The only reason Musk was CEO long enough to potentially commit securities fraud is that he indispensable to the company, not because of his suitability for the role. Tesla should definitely fire him now, but you know what... I don't think they will.

dunpeal 8y ago
This appears to be the case. One of the articles about the possibility of Tesla going private mentioned most of Tesla's board members are Musk's longtime acquaintances and friends: > But it has to be a truly independent committee, with the ability to reject a deal, Mr. Cox said. “This becomes very problematic at Tesla” because many of the board members have longstanding relationships with Mr. Musk, he added. https://www.wsj.com/articles/musks-tweets-on-tesla-buyout-face-scrutiny-after-saudi-disclosure-1534244400 https://www.wsj.com/articles/musks-tweets-on-tesla-buyout-fa... The more I learn about this issue, the more it seems like a corruption of capitalism: a celebrity CEO running a public company like it was his own private playground. You can see how the fantasies of "taking Tesla private" figure into this puzzle.
- mrep 8y ago
  You all make fair points but I definitely don't think it is "corruption of capitalism". I doubt spacex or tesla would be worth nearly as much as they currently are without him because he is a master marketer. They got tens if not hundreds of thousands of people to line up to buy a car years off from production. They also get people to work for them doing 60 hour weeks because they love the mission that he is trying to achieve (source, my brother who worked for tesla and did 60 hour weeks). On "taking Tesla private", I don't blame him considering the mission each company is trying to achieve will take a long time and spacex doesn't really get much bad press much whereas tesla is constantly hammered which would be demoralizing if I worked there.
  - 8y ago