5 ms·

Perhaps if there are no instruments at hand that allow the young to act on such a disastrous suicidal impulse, at least some of these incidents could be prevent

Perhaps if there are no instruments at hand that allow the young to act on such a disastrous suicidal impulse, at least some of these incidents could be prevented.

colmvp 8y ago
Maybe. A close friend of mine used pills instead of a pistol. Thankfully they didn’t succeed in their endeavour but the fact is people who are intent on doing the deed will find a method.
- roguecoder 8y ago
  The rate of success with pills is lower, and it allows time for regret and the patient to seek help, whereas with a gun after the trigger is pulled it's over. The reasons that American men commit suicide twice as often as women do even though only half as many men attempt suicide is because they are more likely to use a gun.
ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
Ugh, are you trying to make this anti gun? There are so many ways to commit suicide it's hardly worth listing them here. If her family kept any pills in the bathroom it's likely she could have killed herself without leaving the room.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  It isn't about guns per se, it's about all lethal items. The how of suicide is just as important as the why. Having anything in your home that is a highly efficient means of killing yourself greatly increases the risk that you will in fact kill yourself. Most suicidal intent is temporary and most suicidal behaviour is impulsive, so restricting access to highly effective means of suicide is a vital tool in preventing suicide. In 1998, the UK restricted sales of paracetamol (acetaminophen) to packs of no more than 32 tablets. The result was a lasting reduction in suicides by paracetamol poisoning, with no commensurate increase in suicide attempts by other means. Several studies have found that interventions like installing suicide prevention barriers on bridges can reduce the suicide rate rather than merely changing the choice of means. https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f403 https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f403 https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/useful-links/bibliography/bridge-bibliography/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/useful-links/bibli... If you take an overdose of tablets or slit your wrists, you'll probably survive with suitable medical care. You probably have the opportunity to change your mind, call an ambulance and save your own life. Very few people survive a gunshot wound to the head; all of them sustain life-altering injuries. You have the right to own a gun, but that comes with responsibilities. You need to recognise that your gun poses a serious risk to you and your family, especially if it isn't consistently stored in a suitable gun safe or someone in the house is at risk of suicide. If you're worried about the mental health of a family member, controlling their access to convenient and highly lethal means of suicide could well prevent an impulsive decision from becoming a tragedy. Clear out your liquor cabinet, throw out any surplus medication and get your gun out of the house. http://www.meansmatter.org/ http://www.meansmatter.org/
- paulcole 8y ago
  Rather than offer your thoughts on what may have happened, you might be interested in reading about actual research into suicide. The gist is that many suicides are impulsive when an easy method is available– most often a gun. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-control https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-...
  - ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
    And I'm saying there were other methods just as easily available if not more so if she was already in the bathroom.
int_handler 8y ago
If you want to go that route, then you'll need to also remove the following instruments: * Ropes or any kind of cords that can be used for hanging * Blades of any kind (kitchen knives, scissors, box cutters, utility knives, etc.) * Anything that can be sharpened into a point that can puncture flesh * Any kind of chemical substance that can be deadly in sufficient quantities. * Any bodies of water where one can drown * Any accessible point that is high enough for one to jump off of. The list goes on. Eventually, the environment that is left would basically be a padded room in a psychiatric hospital in a straightjacket.
- majos 8y ago
  To most people a gun is pretty much a button you can press and instantly end your life, and in the hands of a knowledgeable user that's about right. I think that kind of ease makes a gun very different from other methods you list, most of which require some combination of willpower, preparation, and endurance of pain and discomfort.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  A gun is certainly more attractive as suicide tool than all the things you have listed. It's easy, quick and painless.
  - jakhead 8y ago
    From the story, clearly it isn't. I've a friend who killed himself with a pistol. From the blood spatter around his house it was determined that he shot himself, survived and woke up, put a towel on his head, then shot himself again.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      I guess I should have written "It looks quick, easy and painless". If I wanted to kill myself I probably would use a gun.
- paulcole 8y ago
  Your belief is common but misguided and incorrect. Many suicides are impulsive and if an easy method isn’t available the moment passes and no attempt is made. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-control https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-...
ctrlc-root 8y ago
If you're arguing for proper storage of guns, I completely agree with you. If you're arguing that we should reduce gun ownership to save lives, you're ignoring how many lives are saved by private ownership of guns. Unfortunately, no one keeps track of this statistic, but the CDC estimates between 500,000 and 3,000,000 lives are saved in any given year [0]. This study only provides an estimate, but still, compare that to 13,000 firearm related murders [1] and 22,000 suicides [2, Table 6 on page 33]. I think we need more data but from what I've seen so far it seems to me private gun ownership is a net benefit. 0: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15 https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15 1: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-... 2: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf
- tempestn 8y ago
  > the CDC estimates between 500,000 and 3,000,000 lives are saved in any given year [0] From that link: > Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). Firearms being used in self defense =/= lives saved by firearms.
  - ctrlc-root 8y ago
    Indeed, it turns out it's complicated. That's why I said we need more data. I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. Edit: posted in a different comment but including here as well. > A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.
  - 8y ago

Perhaps if there are no instruments at hand that allow the young to act on such a disastrous suicidal impulse, at least some of these incidents could be prevented.

colmvp 8y ago

Maybe. A close friend of mine used pills instead of a pistol. Thankfully they didn’t succeed in their endeavour but the fact is people who are intent on doing the deed will find a method.

roguecoder 8y ago
The rate of success with pills is lower, and it allows time for regret and the patient to seek help, whereas with a gun after the trigger is pulled it's over. The reasons that American men commit suicide twice as often as women do even though only half as many men attempt suicide is because they are more likely to use a gun.

ApolloFortyNine 8y ago

Ugh, are you trying to make this anti gun? There are so many ways to commit suicide it's hardly worth listing them here. If her family kept any pills in the bathroom it's likely she could have killed herself without leaving the room.

jdietrich 8y ago
It isn't about guns per se, it's about all lethal items. The how of suicide is just as important as the why. Having anything in your home that is a highly efficient means of killing yourself greatly increases the risk that you will in fact kill yourself. Most suicidal intent is temporary and most suicidal behaviour is impulsive, so restricting access to highly effective means of suicide is a vital tool in preventing suicide. In 1998, the UK restricted sales of paracetamol (acetaminophen) to packs of no more than 32 tablets. The result was a lasting reduction in suicides by paracetamol poisoning, with no commensurate increase in suicide attempts by other means. Several studies have found that interventions like installing suicide prevention barriers on bridges can reduce the suicide rate rather than merely changing the choice of means. https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f403 https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f403 https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/useful-links/bibliography/bridge-bibliography/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/useful-links/bibli... If you take an overdose of tablets or slit your wrists, you'll probably survive with suitable medical care. You probably have the opportunity to change your mind, call an ambulance and save your own life. Very few people survive a gunshot wound to the head; all of them sustain life-altering injuries. You have the right to own a gun, but that comes with responsibilities. You need to recognise that your gun poses a serious risk to you and your family, especially if it isn't consistently stored in a suitable gun safe or someone in the house is at risk of suicide. If you're worried about the mental health of a family member, controlling their access to convenient and highly lethal means of suicide could well prevent an impulsive decision from becoming a tragedy. Clear out your liquor cabinet, throw out any surplus medication and get your gun out of the house. http://www.meansmatter.org/ http://www.meansmatter.org/
paulcole 8y ago
Rather than offer your thoughts on what may have happened, you might be interested in reading about actual research into suicide. The gist is that many suicides are impulsive when an easy method is available– most often a gun. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-control https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-...
- ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
  And I'm saying there were other methods just as easily available if not more so if she was already in the bathroom.

int_handler 8y ago

If you want to go that route, then you'll need to also remove the following instruments: * Ropes or any kind of cords that can be used for hanging * Blades of any kind (kitchen knives, scissors, box cutters, utility knives, etc.) * Anything that can be sharpened into a point that can puncture flesh * Any kind of chemical substance that can be deadly in sufficient quantities. * Any bodies of water where one can drown * Any accessible point that is high enough for one to jump off of. The list goes on. Eventually, the environment that is left would basically be a padded room in a psychiatric hospital in a straightjacket.

majos 8y ago
To most people a gun is pretty much a button you can press and instantly end your life, and in the hands of a knowledgeable user that's about right. I think that kind of ease makes a gun very different from other methods you list, most of which require some combination of willpower, preparation, and endurance of pain and discomfort.
maxxxxx 8y ago
A gun is certainly more attractive as suicide tool than all the things you have listed. It's easy, quick and painless.
- jakhead 8y ago
  From the story, clearly it isn't. I've a friend who killed himself with a pistol. From the blood spatter around his house it was determined that he shot himself, survived and woke up, put a towel on his head, then shot himself again.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    I guess I should have written "It looks quick, easy and painless". If I wanted to kill myself I probably would use a gun.
paulcole 8y ago
Your belief is common but misguided and incorrect. Many suicides are impulsive and if an easy method isn’t available the moment passes and no attempt is made. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-control https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9068255/suicide-impulsive-gun-...

ctrlc-root 8y ago

If you're arguing for proper storage of guns, I completely agree with you. If you're arguing that we should reduce gun ownership to save lives, you're ignoring how many lives are saved by private ownership of guns. Unfortunately, no one keeps track of this statistic, but the CDC estimates between 500,000 and 3,000,000 lives are saved in any given year [0]. This study only provides an estimate, but still, compare that to 13,000 firearm related murders [1] and 22,000 suicides [2, Table 6 on page 33]. I think we need more data but from what I've seen so far it seems to me private gun ownership is a net benefit. 0: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15 https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15 1: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-... 2: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

tempestn 8y ago
> the CDC estimates between 500,000 and 3,000,000 lives are saved in any given year [0] From that link: > Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). Firearms being used in self defense =/= lives saved by firearms.
- ctrlc-root 8y ago
  Indeed, it turns out it's complicated. That's why I said we need more data. I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. Edit: posted in a different comment but including here as well. > A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.
- 8y ago