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Will this replace Command Prompt or Powershell? Or is this more the back-end for these apps? I believe that we are heading for console overload (in a good way?!

by llampx 8y ago

Will this replace Command Prompt or Powershell? Or is this more the back-end for these apps? I believe that we are heading for console overload (in a good way?!) with Command Prompt and Powershell installed on every computer and Debian/Ubuntu available on the MS store.

nailer 8y ago
The back end. Basically people like ConEmu and Hyper and Terminus have been having to use various unreliable hacks for ages because there was no real console API. Now there is one.
zadjii 8y ago
First off: command prompt (cmd.exe) and powershell are commandline client applications. They are shells just the same as bash is. All commandline clients run attached to a console server, and that server is conhost.exe. Conhost is responsible not only for being the console server, but drawing the actual terminal window these apps run in. So when you alunch cmd or powershell, what you're seeing is conhost.exe "hosting" these console applications. What we're exposing here is the "master side" of conhost, which will the other applications act as Terminals, like how there is gnome-terminal, xterm, terminator, etc on linux.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  Is there any chance cmd and powershell will improve from a user interface perspective? And perhaps become usable? Cmd has been garbage since it's inception.
  - zadjii 8y ago
    cmd is parked for pretty much everything except for major issues. It's a scary codebase that has a LOT of code that's dependent on it, and we can't really add any new features there without the possibility of breaking someone. This feature is mostly focused on the other end of the communication, on being able to create new Terminal windows to run shells inside of them.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      Is there a chance this will be connected to a functional shell interface. I get your point that cmd cannot be upgraded because of legacy issues and that is understandable and unfortunate, but windows needs a proper shell. This is obviously a great start for one side of the equation. But until there is a decent terminal app, windows will continue to be a nonstarter.
      - zadjii 8y ago
        It sounds like you're asking for two different things here: cmd.exe is a shell, and that's the guy that's parked. conhost.exe is a terminal, and that's under active development, though it's slower than something like VsCode, because we can't just go adding features as we see fit, we have a LOT of back compat we still need to support. Fortunately, conpty will allow for the creation of new terminal applications on Windows. If you're looking for a better shell experience on windows, I can point you to powershell or even [yori](http://www.malsmith.net/yori/ http://www.malsmith.net/yori/), which looks pretty cool
        cryptonector 8y ago
        I think u/paulie_a is just asking for a better shell. If cmd can't be made better, then make a new one.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        Exactly, I understand there are different underlying concepts and systems to the front end and what it interacts with. It just seem incredible that windows is basically stuck with a windows 95 interface for a shell.
        nailer 8y ago
        Powershell is open source, the 6.1 preview 4 is nice and fast, and you get real objects with keys rather than scraping for regexs all the time like bash.
  - tokyodude 8y ago
    some other HN thread recommended cmder. I haven't touched cmd since http://cmder.net/ http://cmder.net/
    - zadjii 8y ago
      Ah but see, now you're conflating two different things: cmd.exe is a shell conhost and cmder are terminals. I believe cmder can come with git bash as well, which is also a shell. The confusion comes from when you launch cmd, the window that appears by default is conhost, with cmd running attached to it. When you launch cmder, it's also running attached to cmd.

by llampx 8y ago

nailer 8y ago

The back end. Basically people like ConEmu and Hyper and Terminus have been having to use various unreliable hacks for ages because there was no real console API. Now there is one.

zadjii 8y ago

First off: command prompt (cmd.exe) and powershell are commandline client applications. They are shells just the same as bash is. All commandline clients run attached to a console server, and that server is conhost.exe. Conhost is responsible not only for being the console server, but drawing the actual terminal window these apps run in. So when you alunch cmd or powershell, what you're seeing is conhost.exe "hosting" these console applications. What we're exposing here is the "master side" of conhost, which will the other applications act as Terminals, like how there is gnome-terminal, xterm, terminator, etc on linux.

paulie_a 8y ago
Is there any chance cmd and powershell will improve from a user interface perspective? And perhaps become usable? Cmd has been garbage since it's inception.
- zadjii 8y ago
  cmd is parked for pretty much everything except for major issues. It's a scary codebase that has a LOT of code that's dependent on it, and we can't really add any new features there without the possibility of breaking someone. This feature is mostly focused on the other end of the communication, on being able to create new Terminal windows to run shells inside of them.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    Is there a chance this will be connected to a functional shell interface. I get your point that cmd cannot be upgraded because of legacy issues and that is understandable and unfortunate, but windows needs a proper shell. This is obviously a great start for one side of the equation. But until there is a decent terminal app, windows will continue to be a nonstarter.
    - zadjii 8y ago
      It sounds like you're asking for two different things here: cmd.exe is a shell, and that's the guy that's parked. conhost.exe is a terminal, and that's under active development, though it's slower than something like VsCode, because we can't just go adding features as we see fit, we have a LOT of back compat we still need to support. Fortunately, conpty will allow for the creation of new terminal applications on Windows. If you're looking for a better shell experience on windows, I can point you to powershell or even [yori](http://www.malsmith.net/yori/ http://www.malsmith.net/yori/), which looks pretty cool
      - cryptonector 8y ago
        I think u/paulie_a is just asking for a better shell. If cmd can't be made better, then make a new one.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        Exactly, I understand there are different underlying concepts and systems to the front end and what it interacts with. It just seem incredible that windows is basically stuck with a windows 95 interface for a shell.
        nailer 8y ago
        Powershell is open source, the 6.1 preview 4 is nice and fast, and you get real objects with keys rather than scraping for regexs all the time like bash.
- tokyodude 8y ago
  some other HN thread recommended cmder. I haven't touched cmd since http://cmder.net/ http://cmder.net/
  - zadjii 8y ago
    Ah but see, now you're conflating two different things: cmd.exe is a shell conhost and cmder are terminals. I believe cmder can come with git bash as well, which is also a shell. The confusion comes from when you launch cmd, the window that appears by default is conhost, with cmd running attached to it. When you launch cmder, it's also running attached to cmd.