6 ms·

Why do you think that she wouldn't have tried to commit suicide via another means if she didn't have access to a gun?

forapurpose 8y ago
If I understand correctly, plenty of research shows that it's an impulsive decision, and access to a tool that makes it easy greatly increases the likelihood of acting on it. The research shows that the presence of guns, in particular, in increases suicide. Killing yourself is hard; a gun makes it a push-button operation. However, it would be much better if someone could share the actual research with us.
- mynameishere 8y ago
  If someone thinks about suicide for years and then "impulsively" picks up that gun, I'm guessing the researchers count that as an "impulsive decision". On the other hand, it does seem Katie's attempt was genuinely a spur-of-the-moment thing, and a proper gun cabinet might have been sufficient to stop her. As a PSA, don't ever try to kill yourself with a gun. The success rate is only 70 percent. The 30 percent who survive are much worse off than the rare jumper who survives the golden gate bridge
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    > If someone thinks about suicide for years and then "impulsively" picks up that gun, I'm guessing the researchers count that as an "impulsive decision". Is there something you can point to that supports that theory? I appreciate that you say you are "guessing". Also, I don't know what "thinks about suicide for years" signifies. Probably everyone thinks about it at some point, and probably at multiple points; thus we all 'think about it for years'. I thought about being a fireman for years when I was a child. There's a big difference between thinking and acting, or there would be a lot more startups in the world.
jbob2000 8y ago
She totally could have. But other means of suicide give family and bystanders a chance to intervene. Pills and alcohol can be pumped out of the stomach. You can be pulled down from the edge of a bridge. You can rescue yourself from a hanging if you find you have last minute regrets. A gun is brutally efficient at killing you; Load and pull the trigger. If the gun is lying around loaded, all you have to do is pick it up and pull. A gentle flick of the finger and it's over.
- wild_preference 8y ago
  Well, maybe we should have a right to die.
  - CaptSpify 8y ago
    Although I generally agree with you, she said she regretted the attempt: “I felt so guilty that I had put my family through such pain. I felt horrible.”
  - PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
    Even if we were to agree with such a right, you would have a duty about how you do it to reduce trauma to others and society has a duty to make sure it is a rational choice. Also, even in a world where adults would have that right, but I doubt those under 18 would without special circumstances such as terminal illness.
DanBC 8y ago
We have plenty of research to show that method substitution is unusual. This research comes from a few places: looking at people who've died by suicide and the methods they used, and any previous attempts. Looking at survivors of suicide attempts, and at what methods they've used in the past. And some natural experiments, such as the introduction of catalytic convertors to cars, or switching the UK gas supply from coal gas to natural gas.

If I understand correctly, plenty of research shows that it's an impulsive decision, and access to a tool that makes it easy greatly increases the likelihood of acting on it. The research shows that the presence of guns, in particular, in increases suicide. Killing yourself is hard; a gun makes it a push-button operation. However, it would be much better if someone could share the actual research with us.

mynameishere 8y ago
If someone thinks about suicide for years and then "impulsively" picks up that gun, I'm guessing the researchers count that as an "impulsive decision". On the other hand, it does seem Katie's attempt was genuinely a spur-of-the-moment thing, and a proper gun cabinet might have been sufficient to stop her. As a PSA, don't ever try to kill yourself with a gun. The success rate is only 70 percent. The 30 percent who survive are much worse off than the rare jumper who survives the golden gate bridge
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > If someone thinks about suicide for years and then "impulsively" picks up that gun, I'm guessing the researchers count that as an "impulsive decision". Is there something you can point to that supports that theory? I appreciate that you say you are "guessing". Also, I don't know what "thinks about suicide for years" signifies. Probably everyone thinks about it at some point, and probably at multiple points; thus we all 'think about it for years'. I thought about being a fireman for years when I was a child. There's a big difference between thinking and acting, or there would be a lot more startups in the world.

jbob2000 8y ago

She totally could have. But other means of suicide give family and bystanders a chance to intervene. Pills and alcohol can be pumped out of the stomach. You can be pulled down from the edge of a bridge. You can rescue yourself from a hanging if you find you have last minute regrets. A gun is brutally efficient at killing you; Load and pull the trigger. If the gun is lying around loaded, all you have to do is pick it up and pull. A gentle flick of the finger and it's over.

wild_preference 8y ago
Well, maybe we should have a right to die.
- CaptSpify 8y ago
  Although I generally agree with you, she said she regretted the attempt: “I felt so guilty that I had put my family through such pain. I felt horrible.”
- PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
  Even if we were to agree with such a right, you would have a duty about how you do it to reduce trauma to others and society has a duty to make sure it is a rational choice. Also, even in a world where adults would have that right, but I doubt those under 18 would without special circumstances such as terminal illness.

DanBC 8y ago

We have plenty of research to show that method substitution is unusual. This research comes from a few places: looking at people who've died by suicide and the methods they used, and any previous attempts. Looking at survivors of suicide attempts, and at what methods they've used in the past. And some natural experiments, such as the introduction of catalytic convertors to cars, or switching the UK gas supply from coal gas to natural gas.