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This bill seems like it forces socialism/command economy on all companies valued greater than 1 billion dollars. It is amazing something like this came from a

This bill seems like it forces socialism/command economy on all companies valued greater than 1 billion dollars. It is amazing something like this came from a United States senator. The worst thing about stuff like this is that is socialism is hard to dispell in sound bites. Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union.

craftyguy 8y ago
> Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union. You don't have to 'remember' something in order to understand its impact. In fact, having the hindsight of history may be more beneficial to understanding something than living in the moment and having your experiences impacted by your emotions at the time. An individual's memory is also not very reliable, so there's that too. That said, this new plan sounds extremely heavy handed.
spamizbad 8y ago
> Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union. Unless there's a sustained period of economic prosperity similar to what followed WWII, socialism will continue to gain support among Millennials. Most of the warnings around socialism sound similar to those we've heard about illegal drugs: "I smoked one weed and it ruined my life" = "I put in modest regulation and now it's the Soviet Union" Edit: Specifically, unless Millennials experience some measure of sustained economic growth and stability, derived from capitalism, socialism will likely continue to rise in popularity. Capitalism is in need of a better argument than "If you think free markets are bad, wait till you see communism!"
- justboxing 8y ago
  > "I smoked one weed and it ruined my life" "one bud" or "one blunt" or "one roll" not "one weed".
  - spamizbad 8y ago
    ... that was the joke.
    - justboxing 8y ago
      Oops. Guess the joke's on me now ROFL.
- ethbro 8y ago
  > Unless there's a sustained period of economic prosperity similar to what followed WWII Economic prosperity isn't the most unique feature post-WWII: severely flattened income inequality is. I.e. the top 10% going from ~45% income share in 1937 to ~33% from 1942-77.
  - spamizbad 8y ago
    Sorry, i should be more specific: "Unless a majority of Millennials begin to experience a measure of sustained economic prosperity..."
    - ethbro 8y ago
      Functionally equivalent. I was just cart / horsing to include a possible cause vs an effect.
scroot 8y ago
This is nothing like a command economy.
tribesman 8y ago
If something like this really happens, then all FDI holders will suck money out of the US and dollar will decline and no longer will be world's currency. So, this is very unlikely.
- cannonedhamster 8y ago
  The dollar is already losing the battle to maintain its status as the world's currency. The current administration policy of hostility towards our European allies has increased flight from the dollar. China's ascendancy will continue that flight until the inevitable US/China/Russia war.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> This bill seems like it forces socialism/command economy on all companies valued greater than 1 billion dollars In that it gives some voice to workers in direction of firms, it could kinda-sorta be seen as a kind of socialism, but since the firms actual decisions are made internally and not by an external central planner, it's not anything like a command economy. > The worst thing about stuff like this is that is socialism is hard to dispell in sound bites. I dunno, the American Right usually does a good enough job (even against things that aren't socialism) with just “socialism” repeated over and over as the soundbite, with no additional substance. That might be changing over time in a demonstration of the “little boy who cried wolf” effect, though. > Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union I'm not a millennial, and I quite clearly recall that the Soviet Union was not exactly known for large private joint stock companies with a minority voice for workers in choosing directors. So, I can see that not remembering the USSR is a problem here, though not in the way you seem to be concerned about.
notacoward 8y ago
> This bill seems like it forces socialism/command economy on all companies valued greater than 1 billion dollars That's an absolute caricature of what the bill does. It doesn't mandate what products or services companies can provide, how they charge for those services, what deals they make, etc. There's none of the fine-grained control that a real command economy would entail. All it does is change the operative definition of fiduciary duty to include people besides shareholders who are affected by a company's actions. There are both moral and practical justifications for this. The moral justification is that it's unfair to give corporations every advantage given to real flesh-and-blood people, while also preserving their natural advantages - immortality, immunity to imprisonment for crimes, and most pertinently limitation of liability. The natural state of the market does not include limited liability. In order for the state to extend that favor to corporations (by extension to their principals and shareholders) there must be some compelling benefit to the people the state represents, otherwise it's not a deal but a steal. Historically, when corporations were first created, it was on the basis of a charter spelling out the nature of that benefit and holding them accountable for its realization (e.g. to build a road, bridge, or canal). That brings us to the practical justification. The lack of such charters has empirically been very bad for the middle class, for the environment, for political stability, etc. In short, the grantors of these favors - the people behind the government that defines and enforces civil law - are not getting their money's worth. They're giving and not getting, even more so when the benefits can flow overseas while the costs stay here. Once government starts doing favors for corporations without expecting anything back, what you have is neither democracy nor capitalism but oligarchy. Since you made the mistake of mentioning the Soviet Union, all I need do is point to its successor state for an example. It's a bad deal, and it's bad policy. Enforceable limited charters are long overdue for a comeback. P.S. I'm no millennial. I'm a very early GenX if you must know. What that means is that I've had time to study this stuff at more than a superficial level, so your well-poisoning is entirely off target.

craftyguy 8y ago

> Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union. You don't have to 'remember' something in order to understand its impact. In fact, having the hindsight of history may be more beneficial to understanding something than living in the moment and having your experiences impacted by your emotions at the time. An individual's memory is also not very reliable, so there's that too. That said, this new plan sounds extremely heavy handed.

spamizbad 8y ago

> Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union. Unless there's a sustained period of economic prosperity similar to what followed WWII, socialism will continue to gain support among Millennials. Most of the warnings around socialism sound similar to those we've heard about illegal drugs: "I smoked one weed and it ruined my life" = "I put in modest regulation and now it's the Soviet Union" Edit: Specifically, unless Millennials experience some measure of sustained economic growth and stability, derived from capitalism, socialism will likely continue to rise in popularity. Capitalism is in need of a better argument than "If you think free markets are bad, wait till you see communism!"

justboxing 8y ago
> "I smoked one weed and it ruined my life" "one bud" or "one blunt" or "one roll" not "one weed".
- spamizbad 8y ago
  ... that was the joke.
  - justboxing 8y ago
    Oops. Guess the joke's on me now ROFL.
ethbro 8y ago
> Unless there's a sustained period of economic prosperity similar to what followed WWII Economic prosperity isn't the most unique feature post-WWII: severely flattened income inequality is. I.e. the top 10% going from ~45% income share in 1937 to ~33% from 1942-77.
- spamizbad 8y ago
  Sorry, i should be more specific: "Unless a majority of Millennials begin to experience a measure of sustained economic prosperity..."
  - ethbro 8y ago
    Functionally equivalent. I was just cart / horsing to include a possible cause vs an effect.

scroot 8y ago

This is nothing like a command economy.

tribesman 8y ago

If something like this really happens, then all FDI holders will suck money out of the US and dollar will decline and no longer will be world's currency. So, this is very unlikely.

cannonedhamster 8y ago
The dollar is already losing the battle to maintain its status as the world's currency. The current administration policy of hostility towards our European allies has increased flight from the dollar. China's ascendancy will continue that flight until the inevitable US/China/Russia war.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> This bill seems like it forces socialism/command economy on all companies valued greater than 1 billion dollars In that it gives some voice to workers in direction of firms, it could kinda-sorta be seen as a kind of socialism, but since the firms actual decisions are made internally and not by an external central planner, it's not anything like a command economy. > The worst thing about stuff like this is that is socialism is hard to dispell in sound bites. I dunno, the American Right usually does a good enough job (even against things that aren't socialism) with just “socialism” repeated over and over as the soundbite, with no additional substance. That might be changing over time in a demonstration of the “little boy who cried wolf” effect, though. > Unfortunately millennials do not remember the Soviet Union I'm not a millennial, and I quite clearly recall that the Soviet Union was not exactly known for large private joint stock companies with a minority voice for workers in choosing directors. So, I can see that not remembering the USSR is a problem here, though not in the way you seem to be concerned about.

notacoward 8y ago

> This bill seems like it forces socialism/command economy on all companies valued greater than 1 billion dollars That's an absolute caricature of what the bill does. It doesn't mandate what products or services companies can provide, how they charge for those services, what deals they make, etc. There's none of the fine-grained control that a real command economy would entail. All it does is change the operative definition of fiduciary duty to include people besides shareholders who are affected by a company's actions. There are both moral and practical justifications for this. The moral justification is that it's unfair to give corporations every advantage given to real flesh-and-blood people, while also preserving their natural advantages - immortality, immunity to imprisonment for crimes, and most pertinently limitation of liability. The natural state of the market does not include limited liability. In order for the state to extend that favor to corporations (by extension to their principals and shareholders) there must be some compelling benefit to the people the state represents, otherwise it's not a deal but a steal. Historically, when corporations were first created, it was on the basis of a charter spelling out the nature of that benefit and holding them accountable for its realization (e.g. to build a road, bridge, or canal). That brings us to the practical justification. The lack of such charters has empirically been very bad for the middle class, for the environment, for political stability, etc. In short, the grantors of these favors - the people behind the government that defines and enforces civil law - are not getting their money's worth. They're giving and not getting, even more so when the benefits can flow overseas while the costs stay here. Once government starts doing favors for corporations without expecting anything back, what you have is neither democracy nor capitalism but oligarchy. Since you made the mistake of mentioning the Soviet Union, all I need do is point to its successor state for an example. It's a bad deal, and it's bad policy. Enforceable limited charters are long overdue for a comeback. P.S. I'm no millennial. I'm a very early GenX if you must know. What that means is that I've had time to study this stuff at more than a superficial level, so your well-poisoning is entirely off target.