4 ms·

Is that all? One could save money by living in Manhattan and flying to San Francisco for work. If time zones and transit were unrealistically fast and permitt

Is that all? One could save money by living in Manhattan and flying to San Francisco for work. If time zones and transit were unrealistically fast and permitted such an exercise.

gnulinux 8y ago
Is this really true? I used to live in Berkeley (for college) and my rent was $600. I lived with 4 other people, but it was very livable and comfortable overall, for college at least. This is only a few months ago. I'm not saying housing prices aren't batshit crazy in the Bay Area but it doesn't seem likely to be able to live in Manhattan and fly SF everyday cheaper. I currently live in Boston with a relatively more comfortable housing situation and my rent is $950. I would imagine similar rooms in Berkeley like this would be ~$1200 or something.
- madcaptenor 8y ago
  This actually does pencil out for living in Barcelona and working in London: - here's the back-of-the-envelope calculation some guy did as a joke: https://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper-to-rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/ https://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24... - and then he actually starting doing it (although only once a week or so, working from Barcelona the rest of the time): https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/aug/11/commuting-from-barcelona-a-london-worker-who-makes-it-pay https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/aug/11/commuting-fro... But that's a much shorter flight. It wouldn't surprise me if it worked for, say, Las Vegas to San Francisco.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    I think it might work from cheaper big cities in the West Coast e.g. Portland to SF.
esonderegger 8y ago
I tried doing something very similar to this. It ended up being so draining I couldn't do it long-term. Specifically, I was in Washington DC and the startup I wanted to work for was in San Jose. My then-girlfriend (now fiancé) has the kind of job that can only be done in DC. I agreed to fly out for a week every month or so and work remotely the rest of the time. I did it for a little over a year but the travel wore me out and I struggled to find a healthy routine working from home. I see threads like this and think that the solution to this problem has to be more remote work. I just wish I could be one of the people for whom it works as well in practice as it does in theory.
- moate 8y ago
  The solution is equal parts "more remote work" and "you don't need to be based in the Valley to be a tech company, so go make your physical location somewhere that people can afford". It's this whole chicken vs. egg of "The valley attracts talent so we should be where the talent is".
  - esonderegger 8y ago
    I spent a lot of time asking myself the question "would this company be successful if it had been started in St Louis?". On the one hand, they could offer an incredible salary to cost of living ratio. However, when I thought about my coworkers, a good number of them had spouses/significant others who worked for Facebook/Apple/Google. Also, there was a lot of value in knowing that if this company went belly-up, there would always be another company nearby to work for. At least in this case, the decision to be located in the valley was rational at the individual level, even if it may be irrational collectively. I think Seattle, Boston, LA, and NYC also have critical masses of talent that make them acceptable for starting a tech company, but unfortunately those places aren't really affordable either. The decrease in proximity to talent and capital probably isn't worth the marginal savings in cost of living. If anyone is going to break the chicken vs. egg cycle and set up shop somewhere truly affordable, I think it will have to be one of the big companies, opening up a satellite office and offering employees the ability to choose where they want to work. They're all so profitable that they don't seem to mind the money that's going to Bay Area landowners. I wonder how expensive things will have to get before they start to get creative.
Animats 8y ago
The City of New York actually put a billboard on US 101 in Silicon Valley promoting moving to New York City because it is cheaper.

Is that all? One could save money by living in Manhattan and flying to San Francisco for work. If time zones and transit were unrealistically fast and permitted such an exercise.

gnulinux 8y ago

Is this really true? I used to live in Berkeley (for college) and my rent was $600. I lived with 4 other people, but it was very livable and comfortable overall, for college at least. This is only a few months ago. I'm not saying housing prices aren't batshit crazy in the Bay Area but it doesn't seem likely to be able to live in Manhattan and fly SF everyday cheaper. I currently live in Boston with a relatively more comfortable housing situation and my rent is $950. I would imagine similar rooms in Berkeley like this would be ~$1200 or something.

madcaptenor 8y ago
This actually does pencil out for living in Barcelona and working in London: - here's the back-of-the-envelope calculation some guy did as a joke: https://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper-to-rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/ https://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24... - and then he actually starting doing it (although only once a week or so, working from Barcelona the rest of the time): https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/aug/11/commuting-from-barcelona-a-london-worker-who-makes-it-pay https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/aug/11/commuting-fro... But that's a much shorter flight. It wouldn't surprise me if it worked for, say, Las Vegas to San Francisco.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  I think it might work from cheaper big cities in the West Coast e.g. Portland to SF.

esonderegger 8y ago

I tried doing something very similar to this. It ended up being so draining I couldn't do it long-term. Specifically, I was in Washington DC and the startup I wanted to work for was in San Jose. My then-girlfriend (now fiancé) has the kind of job that can only be done in DC. I agreed to fly out for a week every month or so and work remotely the rest of the time. I did it for a little over a year but the travel wore me out and I struggled to find a healthy routine working from home. I see threads like this and think that the solution to this problem has to be more remote work. I just wish I could be one of the people for whom it works as well in practice as it does in theory.

moate 8y ago
The solution is equal parts "more remote work" and "you don't need to be based in the Valley to be a tech company, so go make your physical location somewhere that people can afford". It's this whole chicken vs. egg of "The valley attracts talent so we should be where the talent is".
- esonderegger 8y ago
  I spent a lot of time asking myself the question "would this company be successful if it had been started in St Louis?". On the one hand, they could offer an incredible salary to cost of living ratio. However, when I thought about my coworkers, a good number of them had spouses/significant others who worked for Facebook/Apple/Google. Also, there was a lot of value in knowing that if this company went belly-up, there would always be another company nearby to work for. At least in this case, the decision to be located in the valley was rational at the individual level, even if it may be irrational collectively. I think Seattle, Boston, LA, and NYC also have critical masses of talent that make them acceptable for starting a tech company, but unfortunately those places aren't really affordable either. The decrease in proximity to talent and capital probably isn't worth the marginal savings in cost of living. If anyone is going to break the chicken vs. egg cycle and set up shop somewhere truly affordable, I think it will have to be one of the big companies, opening up a satellite office and offering employees the ability to choose where they want to work. They're all so profitable that they don't seem to mind the money that's going to Bay Area landowners. I wonder how expensive things will have to get before they start to get creative.

Animats 8y ago

The City of New York actually put a billboard on US 101 in Silicon Valley promoting moving to New York City because it is cheaper.