5 ms·

One of the best pieces of advice is to not go to New York City. Everything, from rent to groceries is at least double what you'd pay anywhere else. If you're

One of the best pieces of advice is to not go to New York City. Everything, from rent to groceries is at least double what you'd pay anywhere else. If you're dead set on living in a city, Chicago and Boston are flooded with technical growth at the moment. If budget is a big factor, consider Cincinnati. It's smaller but growing and dirt cheap to live quite well!

kadabra9 8y ago
I'd second Chicago and Boston (haven't been to Cincinnati) and also recommend considering Philadelphia as well. Philly is substantially cheaper than NYC (both in rent and general cost of living) but only an hour and a half away, so you can quickly get to NYC should you need to. There's an expanding tech scene as well.
- dmuth 8y ago
  I will also recommend Philadelphia. Between Uber and SEPTA, you won't need a car even if you live in the suburbs (source: Me), the city is well connected to NYC and DC via Amtrak, and the tech scene is solid here (N3RD Street, etc.).
  - zerkten 8y ago
    There are also a ton of employers here in Philadelphia who are outside the traditional tech scene, but need tech skills and are possibly able to facilitate visas. The OP jumps from entry-level job to engineering degree which is possibly an assumption that they'll be working in a pure tech company. There are more opportunities if you cast the net wider. You ideally want to avoid the "body shops", of which there are plenty, but I found visa and entry to the US was more important than how perfect the role was. If you can demonstrate the skills people need I've found people here don't care so much about where you are coming from.
misiti3780 8y ago
true --- NYC is more expensive than the cities mentioned, but all of the cities you mentioned require a car (yes I know Chicago has a train, but it's not super convenient, the other two cities absolutely require a car). A car requires a car payment, an insurance payment, gas, maintenance (tires, oil, general problems). Not to mention while your sitting in traffic, you cant work or a read a book or study math, learn a new language etc. Long car-based commutes degrades your lifestyle. I think most people that have this perception NYC is outrageously expensive, but they do not take into account the expenses they endure when they live in other locations. Groceries are not double the cost of other cities here either. If you go to whole foods, that might be true but there are a ton of options to find fresh, reasonably priced food.
- lysistokill 8y ago
  Of all the cities in the US, you probably least need a car in Boston. Most parts are super walkable and the public transit is decent too.
- chuckgreenman 8y ago
  I live in Cincinnati, have no car and my commute is less than 20 minutes a day bicycling. In most cities you really don't need a car.
  - misiti3780 8y ago
    you are in the absolutely minority of people living in that city
- lightcatcher 8y ago
  Chicago definitely does not "absolutely require" a car. I've lived here for a few years without one, and 80-90% of my friends in the city don't own one. The trains don't go everywhere, but train + bus + bike share + Lyft make it very easy (and probably more convenient) to not own a car.
- bamboo_7 8y ago
  Boston does not require a car. Got rid of my car 10 years ago. Only problem is that rent is more expensive near the subway. But we have buses and many many international workers and students. Very livable without a car.
weeksie 8y ago
Chicago and Boston aren't in the same class of city as New York. They're perfectly fine places but NYC is like London or Tokyo. The opportunities and sheer variety of experience available in NY is simply not available in those places. Cost is always a concern but that's the price of living in a world capital.
- hapless 8y ago
  NYC, Chicago, and Tokyo are all more than double the size of London. All three are also much more affordable than central London. London just has a very screwed up market.
  - weeksie 8y ago
    Sure! Tokyo's actually pretty cheap (but the expense of a city has a lot more to do with its regulations regarding zoning and density). Cities just tend to have more expensive housing because they tend to have more bureaucratic barriers to building housing. (Though LDN is WAY bigger than Chicago, about the same size as NY.)
    - hapless 8y ago
      You are thinking in terms of city limits, not the size of the metro area. "London" city limits were expanded to contain all of its suburbs (and even some un-settled farmland) in 1965, so the present-day city population of ~8 million is substantially the same as its total metro area population. The current London city limits aggregate what used to be 33 county governments, plus countless towns and villages. NYC hasn't expanded its city limits since 1898! The 1898 city expansion aggregated three county-level governments, and formed new boroughs from parts of two more, to create the current five boroughs. The modern-day NYC metro area population is ~21 million people, ~27 million if you count the distant exurbs, but only 8.5 million live in the 1898 borders. Chicago's last expansion, excluding the airport, was just a few square miles in 1930. As a result, its current metro area population is about ten million, even though only 2.7 million live in city limits. (Chicago's metropolitan statistical area is unusually small because it is cheek to jowl with other cities, tho)
mlevental 8y ago
yes if you live in tribeca and shop at chelsea market (or whatever mishmash of manhattan proper nouns) that's true but if you live in a middle-class neighborhood in brooklyn (bedstuy, crown heights) or queens (sunnyside, elmhurst) both rent and groceries are very reasonable. and yes the trains do get you into the city in 30-45 (A/C in brooklyn and 7/E in queens).
bogomipz 8y ago
Groceries are most certainly not twice as much in NYC. If you shop at Whole Foods then maybe yes but that is true of every city. And no not "everything" else is twice the price either. Rent prices are burdensome. But if you are willing to share a place with others you can make it work. Many people do. There are multiple meet ups every weekday night in NYC. You can connect and network with people quickly and efficiently. And for free. The economy is booming. And like everywhere else there's always a need for good smart people. Do not listen to the OP. If you really want to move to NYC then do it. The worst case is that you don't manage to find something by the time your tourist visa is running out and you have to leave. But you would have hopefully made some contacts/connections for the future and had a life experience in the process.
- adwi 8y ago
  In my experience Whole Foods is the cheapest grocery store in the city... and certainly the best value all around. Bloomberg did a study four years ago saying so [0], and they’ve become much cheaper post Amazon. OP: don’t listen to the neigh sayers, come to NYC! I always thought I’d end up in Chicago, I’ve lived in Boston and a bunch of other places similar to what others are suggesting, and there’s truly no comparison. Last thing: as a former Midwesterner (a region known for its friendliness) I can say New Yorkers are the friendliest people in America. It’s a city that draws people from all over the world who are excited to be here and passionate about what they do. If you want to be here you’ll figure out a way! [0] https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/09/03/whole_foods_prices_here_s_one_place_where_it_counts_as_a_cheap_grocery_store.html https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014...
  - maratd 8y ago
    > In my experience Whole Foods is the cheapest grocery store in the city Have you been to china town? Yeah, sure, if you compare whole foods to other upscale groceries, that can be the case ... but even Trader Joes is cheaper. There are two groups of people in New York. Those who get it and those who don't. And those who don't, pay twice as much for everything, including groceries.
maratd 8y ago
Yes, New York is expensive. You know what though? All those other places ... they're not New York. You can live in Boston, but then you're living in Boston.
swebs 8y ago
I wouldn't say Boston is cheaper than New York. You can find studio apartments in Manhattan cheaper than ones in Cambridge.

kadabra9 8y ago

I'd second Chicago and Boston (haven't been to Cincinnati) and also recommend considering Philadelphia as well. Philly is substantially cheaper than NYC (both in rent and general cost of living) but only an hour and a half away, so you can quickly get to NYC should you need to. There's an expanding tech scene as well.

dmuth 8y ago
I will also recommend Philadelphia. Between Uber and SEPTA, you won't need a car even if you live in the suburbs (source: Me), the city is well connected to NYC and DC via Amtrak, and the tech scene is solid here (N3RD Street, etc.).
- zerkten 8y ago
  There are also a ton of employers here in Philadelphia who are outside the traditional tech scene, but need tech skills and are possibly able to facilitate visas. The OP jumps from entry-level job to engineering degree which is possibly an assumption that they'll be working in a pure tech company. There are more opportunities if you cast the net wider. You ideally want to avoid the "body shops", of which there are plenty, but I found visa and entry to the US was more important than how perfect the role was. If you can demonstrate the skills people need I've found people here don't care so much about where you are coming from.

misiti3780 8y ago

true --- NYC is more expensive than the cities mentioned, but all of the cities you mentioned require a car (yes I know Chicago has a train, but it's not super convenient, the other two cities absolutely require a car). A car requires a car payment, an insurance payment, gas, maintenance (tires, oil, general problems). Not to mention while your sitting in traffic, you cant work or a read a book or study math, learn a new language etc. Long car-based commutes degrades your lifestyle. I think most people that have this perception NYC is outrageously expensive, but they do not take into account the expenses they endure when they live in other locations. Groceries are not double the cost of other cities here either. If you go to whole foods, that might be true but there are a ton of options to find fresh, reasonably priced food.

lysistokill 8y ago
Of all the cities in the US, you probably least need a car in Boston. Most parts are super walkable and the public transit is decent too.
chuckgreenman 8y ago
I live in Cincinnati, have no car and my commute is less than 20 minutes a day bicycling. In most cities you really don't need a car.
- misiti3780 8y ago
  you are in the absolutely minority of people living in that city
lightcatcher 8y ago
Chicago definitely does not "absolutely require" a car. I've lived here for a few years without one, and 80-90% of my friends in the city don't own one. The trains don't go everywhere, but train + bus + bike share + Lyft make it very easy (and probably more convenient) to not own a car.
bamboo_7 8y ago
Boston does not require a car. Got rid of my car 10 years ago. Only problem is that rent is more expensive near the subway. But we have buses and many many international workers and students. Very livable without a car.

weeksie 8y ago

Chicago and Boston aren't in the same class of city as New York. They're perfectly fine places but NYC is like London or Tokyo. The opportunities and sheer variety of experience available in NY is simply not available in those places. Cost is always a concern but that's the price of living in a world capital.

hapless 8y ago
NYC, Chicago, and Tokyo are all more than double the size of London. All three are also much more affordable than central London. London just has a very screwed up market.
- weeksie 8y ago
  Sure! Tokyo's actually pretty cheap (but the expense of a city has a lot more to do with its regulations regarding zoning and density). Cities just tend to have more expensive housing because they tend to have more bureaucratic barriers to building housing. (Though LDN is WAY bigger than Chicago, about the same size as NY.)
  - hapless 8y ago
    You are thinking in terms of city limits, not the size of the metro area. "London" city limits were expanded to contain all of its suburbs (and even some un-settled farmland) in 1965, so the present-day city population of ~8 million is substantially the same as its total metro area population. The current London city limits aggregate what used to be 33 county governments, plus countless towns and villages. NYC hasn't expanded its city limits since 1898! The 1898 city expansion aggregated three county-level governments, and formed new boroughs from parts of two more, to create the current five boroughs. The modern-day NYC metro area population is ~21 million people, ~27 million if you count the distant exurbs, but only 8.5 million live in the 1898 borders. Chicago's last expansion, excluding the airport, was just a few square miles in 1930. As a result, its current metro area population is about ten million, even though only 2.7 million live in city limits. (Chicago's metropolitan statistical area is unusually small because it is cheek to jowl with other cities, tho)

mlevental 8y ago

yes if you live in tribeca and shop at chelsea market (or whatever mishmash of manhattan proper nouns) that's true but if you live in a middle-class neighborhood in brooklyn (bedstuy, crown heights) or queens (sunnyside, elmhurst) both rent and groceries are very reasonable. and yes the trains do get you into the city in 30-45 (A/C in brooklyn and 7/E in queens).

bogomipz 8y ago

Groceries are most certainly not twice as much in NYC. If you shop at Whole Foods then maybe yes but that is true of every city. And no not "everything" else is twice the price either. Rent prices are burdensome. But if you are willing to share a place with others you can make it work. Many people do. There are multiple meet ups every weekday night in NYC. You can connect and network with people quickly and efficiently. And for free. The economy is booming. And like everywhere else there's always a need for good smart people. Do not listen to the OP. If you really want to move to NYC then do it. The worst case is that you don't manage to find something by the time your tourist visa is running out and you have to leave. But you would have hopefully made some contacts/connections for the future and had a life experience in the process.

adwi 8y ago
In my experience Whole Foods is the cheapest grocery store in the city... and certainly the best value all around. Bloomberg did a study four years ago saying so [0], and they’ve become much cheaper post Amazon. OP: don’t listen to the neigh sayers, come to NYC! I always thought I’d end up in Chicago, I’ve lived in Boston and a bunch of other places similar to what others are suggesting, and there’s truly no comparison. Last thing: as a former Midwesterner (a region known for its friendliness) I can say New Yorkers are the friendliest people in America. It’s a city that draws people from all over the world who are excited to be here and passionate about what they do. If you want to be here you’ll figure out a way! [0] https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/09/03/whole_foods_prices_here_s_one_place_where_it_counts_as_a_cheap_grocery_store.html https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014...
- maratd 8y ago
  > In my experience Whole Foods is the cheapest grocery store in the city Have you been to china town? Yeah, sure, if you compare whole foods to other upscale groceries, that can be the case ... but even Trader Joes is cheaper. There are two groups of people in New York. Those who get it and those who don't. And those who don't, pay twice as much for everything, including groceries.

maratd 8y ago

Yes, New York is expensive. You know what though? All those other places ... they're not New York. You can live in Boston, but then you're living in Boston.

swebs 8y ago

I wouldn't say Boston is cheaper than New York. You can find studio apartments in Manhattan cheaper than ones in Cambridge.