4 ms·

Our company is NYC based and has (and continues to be open to) sponsoring people to move and work in NY. Can only speak for our perspective: The clearest path

Our company is NYC based and has (and continues to be open to) sponsoring people to move and work in NY. Can only speak for our perspective: The clearest path for us is to 1) have a skill set that is relevant to us and 2) be good at it. If you can add value to our team it’s a no brainer for us. My family immigrated to the US and I think there is a lot to be said about someone who is willing to drop everything they know and are comfortable with and bust their ass to make it somewhere else. Make no mistake, this is not going to be an easy journey for you. From our perspective, I have observed that some of our most loyal and bought in employees are the ones we brought over. Part of it is attitude, part of it is work ethic, part of it is the principle of reciprocity. We also know there is far less risk of an employee we are sponsoring to walk away and work somewhere else for a few extra dollars. That’s my two cents. I suspect principal decision makers will be aligned with the above. It’s not that much extra work to sponsor someone and I think most people will do it for the right person. I would not do this for an untested totally entry level grad most likely.

MoBattah 8y ago
Do you ever have issues with (US) candidates not wanting to live in the NYC area?
- lefstathiou 8y ago
  In theory I’m sure we would but we are a small company and clearly state that it would be a non starter for us so anyone with that preference would not bother applying. We leverage remote workers for specialized consulting (such as legacy IE browser debugging) but we not for full time hires.
  - MoBattah 8y ago
    I don't understand this strategy. Isn't NYC in the top 10 most expensive places to live? If you're a small company, wouldn't you want to downsize expenses and not pay for excessive salaries, commercial rent, taxes, etc?
    - zerkten 8y ago
      What would you propose as an alternative strategy? The billing rates tend to be high to compensate based on my experience with consulting. There is no city in the world like NYC, and it has so much to offer. That's not to say there aren't constraints of different types, but it can be an amazing place to live and do business. I'm a Northern Irish guy now living in Philadelphia. I think in a lot of ways it is now much more preferable to NYC for me. Anytime I go back to NYC I feel completely energised by the environment.
      - MoBattah 8y ago
        I've never been, I am ignorant. Alternative - Tech cities with moderate cost of living or suburbs of the majors. So..Texas Triangle (Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, San Antonio), Research Triangle Park (Raleigh-Durham), Chicago.
    - lefstathiou 8y ago
      Of course I would (in theory)! The reality is different though. New Yorkers are reasonable people that would agree that the quality of our lives (as measured by our habitat, access to air, nature etc) living almost ANYWHERE outside of NYC in the continental US would be higher. Everyone who has lived in New York for years knows this. You live in NYC because of the people and opportunities. The incredible amount of intellectual fire power that is crossing the street at the same time as you, or having a beer at the end of your block, is unbelievable and incredibly motivating. They come from all walks of life, doing all manner of jobs, and many of them perform those jobs at the highest level of their industries globally. I grew up in Georgia, and the odds of coming across people of that caliber casually on the way to the grocery store or whatever, are almost zero. If I could get this while living in Santa Barbara, believe me I would. The math just doesn't support it. Of course, this may not be what everyone at any particular point in time values. I appreciate that, NYC is not for them.
      - MoBattah 8y ago
        What sort of salary range does a SWE or SRE earn in NYC with respect to the type of person you mention? I've never encountered a SWE who was 10x more effective than the SWE next to him. Perhaps I'm inexperienced.
  - jscholes 8y ago
    > We leverage remote workers for specialized consulting (such as legacy IE browser debugging) but we not for full time hires. Do you have any interest in hiring someone to do remote consulting in the areas of accessibility and screen reader usability?
chatmasta 8y ago
> some of our most loyal and bought in employees are the ones we brought over. ...and part of it is that if you fire them they lose their visa... not to be cynical but are you sure it’s loyalty and not fear? (Aside: what is a “loyal” employee anyway? I’ve always hated when companies use terms like “loyalty” or “family” because they really misconstrue the employment relationship. It’s a business arrangement, nothing else. “Loyalty” should not be expected and if it is, it’s an indicator that the company is taking advantage of the employee IMO. Why can’t we just be open about the fact that we work, first and foremost, for money? Anything else is secondary. I wouldn’t expect an employer to show loyalty to me as an employee — they can fire me whenever they want — so I have no interest in showing loyalty to them.)
- lefstathiou 8y ago
  Whether or not an employee stays with us because of fear or because they think we are giving them an opportunity of a lifetime, is a matter of perspective. The question that may lay at the heart of this is what drives that optimistic vs cynical view? I would argue context. Let me start by saying that I believe people are loyal to people, not things (ie companies). I believe we could agree that loyalty isnt something that reasonable people should expect. It is earned. I believe we could agree that loyalty is a two-way street. That it is unfair / irrational / unreasonable that a manager should expect loyalty from its employees without reciprocating that loyalty to them (which can be done in many many different ways outside of comp) While I can fire anyone on the spot and they can leave at any time they want, I believe the reality of life, people and social creatures operating in a free and just society are a little more complicated than that. I hate the idea of busting my ass for someone out of loyalty for them and our cause and not being recognized for it. There is a point at which doing that consistently migrates from loyalty to abuse. I've been there. I choose not be that kind of manager. There is a potential that I am, which is why I do my best to communicate broadly my commitment to being fair, principled and rationale. Alas, there is definitely a potential that I am making mistakes too. Personally, I can see it in their face, tone, passion, and gratitude that the people we sponsored are loyal and it motives me to go above and beyond for them in moments where all reasonable people can agree I shouldnt / didnt have to / was above and beyond the call of duty. It manifests itself in subtle ways, like hanging around the office a little bit longer every day to couch them. Or giving them unlimited paid vacations (which no one has ever abused), Investing more in their development and training, or, investing in the companies they leave to start (which is what my managers for me when I left to start our company). Loyalty is very, very real and when it is present, it creates an incredible bond between people. I will drop almost anything I am doing for my team and I am confident almost everyone on the team would do the same. In that, there is an implicit trust that this commitment to each other will be valued and not abused. When that line is crossed, it is crossed and loyalty is compromised. Quick random aside: to this day, I know the name of the man who sponsored some poor Greek kid who had a penchant for math 50 years ago to start a new life in America. Had that person not done that, this conversation and my existence would not have happened. I havent seen Yannis since I was a little kid and he probably hasnt thought of me in decades. As random and weird as this sounds, part of why I enjoy sponsoring people is that it thrills me to pay that forward and know I could potentially have a similar impact on someone's life. I believe that makes me loyal to him in some way. A bit irrational perhaps, but it makes me feel good. Rant over. Thank you for listening.

MoBattah 8y ago

Do you ever have issues with (US) candidates not wanting to live in the NYC area?

lefstathiou 8y ago
In theory I’m sure we would but we are a small company and clearly state that it would be a non starter for us so anyone with that preference would not bother applying. We leverage remote workers for specialized consulting (such as legacy IE browser debugging) but we not for full time hires.
- MoBattah 8y ago
  I don't understand this strategy. Isn't NYC in the top 10 most expensive places to live? If you're a small company, wouldn't you want to downsize expenses and not pay for excessive salaries, commercial rent, taxes, etc?
  - zerkten 8y ago
    What would you propose as an alternative strategy? The billing rates tend to be high to compensate based on my experience with consulting. There is no city in the world like NYC, and it has so much to offer. That's not to say there aren't constraints of different types, but it can be an amazing place to live and do business. I'm a Northern Irish guy now living in Philadelphia. I think in a lot of ways it is now much more preferable to NYC for me. Anytime I go back to NYC I feel completely energised by the environment.
    - MoBattah 8y ago
      I've never been, I am ignorant. Alternative - Tech cities with moderate cost of living or suburbs of the majors. So..Texas Triangle (Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, San Antonio), Research Triangle Park (Raleigh-Durham), Chicago.
  - lefstathiou 8y ago
    Of course I would (in theory)! The reality is different though. New Yorkers are reasonable people that would agree that the quality of our lives (as measured by our habitat, access to air, nature etc) living almost ANYWHERE outside of NYC in the continental US would be higher. Everyone who has lived in New York for years knows this. You live in NYC because of the people and opportunities. The incredible amount of intellectual fire power that is crossing the street at the same time as you, or having a beer at the end of your block, is unbelievable and incredibly motivating. They come from all walks of life, doing all manner of jobs, and many of them perform those jobs at the highest level of their industries globally. I grew up in Georgia, and the odds of coming across people of that caliber casually on the way to the grocery store or whatever, are almost zero. If I could get this while living in Santa Barbara, believe me I would. The math just doesn't support it. Of course, this may not be what everyone at any particular point in time values. I appreciate that, NYC is not for them.
    - MoBattah 8y ago
      What sort of salary range does a SWE or SRE earn in NYC with respect to the type of person you mention? I've never encountered a SWE who was 10x more effective than the SWE next to him. Perhaps I'm inexperienced.
- jscholes 8y ago
  > We leverage remote workers for specialized consulting (such as legacy IE browser debugging) but we not for full time hires. Do you have any interest in hiring someone to do remote consulting in the areas of accessibility and screen reader usability?

chatmasta 8y ago

> some of our most loyal and bought in employees are the ones we brought over. ...and part of it is that if you fire them they lose their visa... not to be cynical but are you sure it’s loyalty and not fear? (Aside: what is a “loyal” employee anyway? I’ve always hated when companies use terms like “loyalty” or “family” because they really misconstrue the employment relationship. It’s a business arrangement, nothing else. “Loyalty” should not be expected and if it is, it’s an indicator that the company is taking advantage of the employee IMO. Why can’t we just be open about the fact that we work, first and foremost, for money? Anything else is secondary. I wouldn’t expect an employer to show loyalty to me as an employee — they can fire me whenever they want — so I have no interest in showing loyalty to them.)

lefstathiou 8y ago
Whether or not an employee stays with us because of fear or because they think we are giving them an opportunity of a lifetime, is a matter of perspective. The question that may lay at the heart of this is what drives that optimistic vs cynical view? I would argue context. Let me start by saying that I believe people are loyal to people, not things (ie companies). I believe we could agree that loyalty isnt something that reasonable people should expect. It is earned. I believe we could agree that loyalty is a two-way street. That it is unfair / irrational / unreasonable that a manager should expect loyalty from its employees without reciprocating that loyalty to them (which can be done in many many different ways outside of comp) While I can fire anyone on the spot and they can leave at any time they want, I believe the reality of life, people and social creatures operating in a free and just society are a little more complicated than that. I hate the idea of busting my ass for someone out of loyalty for them and our cause and not being recognized for it. There is a point at which doing that consistently migrates from loyalty to abuse. I've been there. I choose not be that kind of manager. There is a potential that I am, which is why I do my best to communicate broadly my commitment to being fair, principled and rationale. Alas, there is definitely a potential that I am making mistakes too. Personally, I can see it in their face, tone, passion, and gratitude that the people we sponsored are loyal and it motives me to go above and beyond for them in moments where all reasonable people can agree I shouldnt / didnt have to / was above and beyond the call of duty. It manifests itself in subtle ways, like hanging around the office a little bit longer every day to couch them. Or giving them unlimited paid vacations (which no one has ever abused), Investing more in their development and training, or, investing in the companies they leave to start (which is what my managers for me when I left to start our company). Loyalty is very, very real and when it is present, it creates an incredible bond between people. I will drop almost anything I am doing for my team and I am confident almost everyone on the team would do the same. In that, there is an implicit trust that this commitment to each other will be valued and not abused. When that line is crossed, it is crossed and loyalty is compromised. Quick random aside: to this day, I know the name of the man who sponsored some poor Greek kid who had a penchant for math 50 years ago to start a new life in America. Had that person not done that, this conversation and my existence would not have happened. I havent seen Yannis since I was a little kid and he probably hasnt thought of me in decades. As random and weird as this sounds, part of why I enjoy sponsoring people is that it thrills me to pay that forward and know I could potentially have a similar impact on someone's life. I believe that makes me loyal to him in some way. A bit irrational perhaps, but it makes me feel good. Rant over. Thank you for listening.