7 ms·

How to Make Visa Obey Your Every Desire: The Credit Card Concierge Experiment

112 points by urbannomad 16y ago

binarymax 16y ago
I wonder if you could harness this for serious information research. The grey area is interesting on 5. We cannot research your school paper, or do your job for you examples: Find out if [your] anonymously uploaded website X violates anything in patent Y? What is the contact information for CEO in some big company Z? I could easily think of lots of others! Might be worth a try at least and see how far they can really go :)
runjake 16y ago
This 4HWW blog post was submitted here about 6 months ago here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1321730 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1321730 In the comments section, user feb basically asked HN if our users could verify this is legit, but he didn't get a response then. Anyone?
- Timothee 16y ago
  My wife's card is a Signature (mine should be too I would think but is not for some reason). I could look into it tomorrow. I'm curious to know what they can really do for you. His examples were mostly finding and compiling information that wasn't necessarily hard to find but just annoying or possibly tedious. That in itself could be interesting to take advantage of, especially if they're fast. But could you do something a bit more advanced: let's say you're traveling for X days somewhere, maybe you could ask for them to put together for you a complete program of what's good to see there, places to eat, train schedule, while considering details like days museums are closed, weather... That sounds a bit much but if they can actually do that kind of things, it can get interesting. What about patent or trademark search? Salary/stock options comparison in your sector? Best price for specific car? How can I jailbreak my phone? Can you send a letter to my landlord about the broken dishwasher? I'm curious about the limits really...
makmanalp 16y ago
I wonder how they'd scale up this service if suddenly everyone wanted it. It seems pretty awesome though, especially if you're the type of person who deals with lots of small problems daily.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  It doesn't sound like they actually do much of anything beyond typing your request into Google. It's not as if they sent someone to Austin to buy a gallon of queso dip, or whatever. The reference desk at a major metropolitan library would probably be able to field some of the inquiries the author tried, and without charging whatever ungodly annual fee Visa is probably getting for that card.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Actually, I suspect its some Googling, but also a lot of phone calls. For example, getting in store stock info usually requires calling.
  - martey 16y ago
    The Chase Freedom card does not have an annual fee.
Groxx 16y ago
Main problem I see with this sort of thing: The money to do this comes from somewhere. My location guesses: increased interest rates, and increased POS charges. All of which ultimately means less money for you, and less for everywhere you buy things. Another interesting thing I've read somewhere, and would be interested in a link if someone knows of it: all/many of these higher-perk cards charge the merchants more when they're used. It's best for businesses if you use the most basic cards, or far better if you use cash. But I just dislike credit card companies. And their "rating" systems. I must be cranky right now or something, because I feel like spreading the dislike :\
- jrockway 16y ago
  This probably doesn't cost very much money. A friend of mine in India mentions that with the average programmer's salary there, you can afford to have several personal servants. For the salary of one employee in the US that manages HR compliance, you can probably have 10 people in India that Google for the nearest store that sells tubs of nacho cheese. But nobody complains about how HR compliance raises the fees you pay in the store. Banks, like all other large corporations, already have epic overhead. A few guys in India using Google and a few people to talk to you on the phone does not make much difference to their bottom line. (But it does impress people.) (Oh, and what is "HR compliance"? No idea, but I'm sure every bank has at least 5000 people that do it.)
- Timothee 16y ago
  As a foreigner, the US credit card and rating system puzzled me a bit. But the most annoying thing about it is that it's difficult not to be part of it. If you have credit cards or not, you will have a credit score and that score will be used when you want to buy a house for example… For a couple of years after moving here, I was using either cash or a debit card, but I switched to credit card for a lot of things mostly because you kind of have to play in the credit score game.
  - gaius 16y ago
    You only need to be a part of it if you ever want anyone to extend any sort of credit to you, no?
chaosmachine 16y ago
"But that’s a lot of work, so I’m hoping you guys can do it for me. Just call and give me a daily affirmation." "You want us to call and tell you you’re a good person?" "That’s right." So, was this the inspiration for Awesomeness Reminders? http://www.awesomenessreminders.com/ http://www.awesomenessreminders.com/
- zackattack 16y ago
  Yes
  - zackattack 16y ago
    Maybe
arithmetic 16y ago
As I was reading this article, I was thinking, "Really? You can ask that and they do it for you?". It just never occurred to me that I would need a personal assistant to help me find a tub of nachos (or help me with a crossword or any other chores). I just find it..weird. On the other hand, this article pretty much sold me into determining if I need a Visa Signature card.
jballanc 16y ago
You know, honestly these requests weren't all that outrageous... I've recently become rather disheartened at just how little "extra" it takes to impress American's these days. Many societies around the world take it for granted that services is a part of...well..."service". For example, when I was in Turkey with my wife, we were a just your average cafe. We really like the little tea spoons that they had, and wanted some for home. We asked the waiter if the cafe had any extra they would mind selling us. He told us that the ones they had were all dinged and used, and wouldn't it be better to have some brand new spoons? We agreed, and he sent one of the other boys working in the back down to the local store to buy some for us while we sat and sipped our tea. Ordinary little cafe...nothing really that out of the ordinary...so why is this so foreign in America?
- lionhearted 16y ago
  > You know, honestly these requests weren't all that outrageous... True. Another valuable one - if your bank doesn't suck, you can probably meet with the branch VP and talk personal finance with him and get some advice on credit scores, what accounts he recommends, tax accounts, credit cards, etc. I used to meet with the head of the Citizen's Bank branch in Boston where I was near every two months or so for a quick chat, and he was always friendly and cool. Sometimes he'd ask me about technology and I'd answer some questions. I didn't have crazy money in the bank, I think any customer service-focused bank would do this for you if you're friendly and cool.
- krmmalik 16y ago
  I just got back from Turkey 2 weeks ago. I know exactly what you're talking about. Hospitality is a matter of great pride for the Turks, as is in many countries in the middle-east and Asia. And you're right, this idea is very foreign only in places like America and the UK. This point wouldnt even be a matter of discussion in countries like that. Its so normal.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Honestly, I've never had any good customer service experiences outside of America. In Japan, everything is, "we're sorry, but it's been decided that...". In the UK, everything is, "for security purposes, you can't...".
encoderer 16y ago
I have the Schwab 2% cash back Signature card. I've used the concierge service for some awesome things: 1. I knew I was going to propose to my GF in St. Augustine on a long weekend but I'd never been there. So I asked for a complete scouting report. Lists of good restaurants (plus reservations), good places to ask her, etc. They came through in awesome style. 2. We were shopping in Chicago and she fell in love with, but didn't buy, a Coach purse. Her birthday was a month later so, back home, a thousand miles away, I went to buy that purse. Sold out. They checked near by stores: Sold Out. I check websites: Sold Out. I called my Concierge. They contacted Coach for me. They verified that every single Coach store was sold out of this purse, when the next shipment was coming in, which stores would get the purses from that very next shippment, and how much shipping would cost if I ordered from the closest one and had it delivered. 3. When a Generic prescription drug became suddenly unavailable, I asked about "why". They refused to help because of the questions Medical nature. Even when I told them it was just personal FYI and I wasn't actually taking the medicine (a lie, but i thought it might work)
- varaon 16y ago
  >They refused to help because of the questions Medical nature. Even when I told them it was just personal FYI and I wasn't actually taking the medicine (a lie, but i thought it might work) I suspect that this is a liability issue.
alexbowman 16y ago
Bloomberg have somewhat offered this service. One lucky enough to have a Bloomberg terminal (providing financial news and information services) have access to a helpdesk built into the software via the messaging system (to query data, news, etc). This helpdesk has had huge appeal in other areas - booking restaurants, book recommendations, ideas for things to do on holiday - for many many years. When paying at least $15k/year for such a terminal (often much more), and a client often having hundreds installed, if not thousands, it is a beautiful example of going a little extra for a lot of goodwill.
- ig1 16y ago
  The Bloomberg helpdesk was never designed to be used in that way, but generally the guys and gals staffing it were given quite a lot of flexibility in answering clients. Bloomberg actually took quite an interesting approach to staffing their helpdesk, everyone (except for developers) who joins the company from university has to spend a few months working on the help desk. So all the help desk staff are highly educated locals rather than outsourced labour. They probably have some of the most capable helpdesk staff in the technology industry.
- infinite8s 16y ago
  I used to work for the company, and even employees could access the helpdesk (they definitely ate their own dogfood - everything was done through the terminal).
bergie 16y ago
I've had a Diners Club card with concierge service for a couple of years now, and have used the service only once. Based on talking to people who work in a concierge company they can in most cases only do the things you could've done with a little Googling yourself. It is nice to have somebody look for flights, hotels or restaurants for you, but in general by doing it yourself you get it done a lot more quickly. 5 minutes to findband book a hotel using the phone browser, vs. about the same time on the phone, and waiting them 12 hours to get it done...
nitfol 16y ago
I was excited to try this service out after reading the article. I called them up, and after a couple minutes on hold, was connected to Michael. I didn't need to enter my account number, but it's possible they used my phone number to know that I have a credit card. I asked him if there were any local stores that sold caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew. He put me on hold for a couple minutes and came back, asking if I had tried Wal-Mart or grocery stores. I told him I hadn't seen it there. He said that he found some Facebook page talking about caffeine-free Mountain Dew, but he was unable to access it because Facebook was blocked from his location. He suggested I search on google for it myself. He apologized for being unable to help me. So I searched and the second hit pointed me to http://www.pepsiproductfacts.com/storelocator/index600.html http://www.pepsiproductfacts.com/storelocator/index600.html and there is a store 19 miles from me that sells the "extremely limited" caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew. I'm not impressed.
- DougBTX 16y ago
  Or rather, Google made the more lasting impression first: that finding things is easy.
dmoney 16y ago
Any idea how much these cost, or how much it would cost to get this service without the card? Will they order and buy stuff for you (e.g. from Amazon), or just tell you where it is?
- gaius 16y ago
  http://www.quintessentially.com/join-us/ http://www.quintessentially.com/join-us/ says it starts at #1000/year.
there 16y ago
“Money is no object,” I said, “but I am on a budget.”
- nitrogen 16y ago
  Possible translation: "Whatever it takes, but no more"?
seles 16y ago
Is it just me or does that sound like a fun job, to answer stranger's strange requests?
joshu 16y ago
I'm disappointed. I was hoping that they would explain how to efficiently use this. I use the Amex Platinum concierge when I travel. "I need reservations at good restaurants for these three nights." They lock in the reservations and email me a schedule. Then I go back and try to use open table and/or trip advisor to find better stuff and cancel/replace as necessary. I often get the feeling I am Doing It Wrong, and wish people would share the right way.
Alarmed 16y ago
I've done security assessments of outsourcers providing this service before. One was mostly aligned with credit card companies, one was an company that offered this in conjunction with travel insurance. Interestingly, all agents in both cases were in the US. (It's possible some call QA was offshored, I don't recall in these instances but that's very common.) In my review, the providers had little familiarity with the data security controls of the credit card industry (aka PCI). One was PCI certified, one was not but 'working on it'. The one that had been certified had somehow convinced their QSA (the PCI auditor) to not review the systems their agents used, only the core infrastructure. The provider with home-based agents let their agents use their own computers to service callers, and it was quiet possible that the agent had never met anyone from the hiring company face-to-face. Now, as a matter of course, probably only 1-3% of the calls actually required the agent take a credit card number (to order something for the customer). Most of the time the agents were just answering questions. Most of the agents would never see the caller's credit card number from the issuing bank. From a information security point-of-view I wouldn't have any problem using the providers I reviewed (although, even as a frequent traveller, I've never had an occasion where it seemed like it would be useful), but I'd stop short of giving them my credit card number.

112 points by urbannomad 16y ago

I wonder if you could harness this for serious information research. The grey area is interesting on 5. We cannot research your school paper, or do your job for you examples: Find out if [your] anonymously uploaded website X violates anything in patent Y? What is the contact information for CEO in some big company Z? I could easily think of lots of others! Might be worth a try at least and see how far they can really go :)

runjake 16y ago

This 4HWW blog post was submitted here about 6 months ago here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1321730 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1321730 In the comments section, user feb basically asked HN if our users could verify this is legit, but he didn't get a response then. Anyone?

Timothee 16y ago
My wife's card is a Signature (mine should be too I would think but is not for some reason). I could look into it tomorrow. I'm curious to know what they can really do for you. His examples were mostly finding and compiling information that wasn't necessarily hard to find but just annoying or possibly tedious. That in itself could be interesting to take advantage of, especially if they're fast. But could you do something a bit more advanced: let's say you're traveling for X days somewhere, maybe you could ask for them to put together for you a complete program of what's good to see there, places to eat, train schedule, while considering details like days museums are closed, weather... That sounds a bit much but if they can actually do that kind of things, it can get interesting. What about patent or trademark search? Salary/stock options comparison in your sector? Best price for specific car? How can I jailbreak my phone? Can you send a letter to my landlord about the broken dishwasher? I'm curious about the limits really...

makmanalp 16y ago

I wonder how they'd scale up this service if suddenly everyone wanted it. It seems pretty awesome though, especially if you're the type of person who deals with lots of small problems daily.

CamperBob 16y ago
It doesn't sound like they actually do much of anything beyond typing your request into Google. It's not as if they sent someone to Austin to buy a gallon of queso dip, or whatever. The reference desk at a major metropolitan library would probably be able to field some of the inquiries the author tried, and without charging whatever ungodly annual fee Visa is probably getting for that card.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Actually, I suspect its some Googling, but also a lot of phone calls. For example, getting in store stock info usually requires calling.
- martey 16y ago
  The Chase Freedom card does not have an annual fee.

Groxx 16y ago

Main problem I see with this sort of thing: The money to do this comes from somewhere. My location guesses: increased interest rates, and increased POS charges. All of which ultimately means less money for you, and less for everywhere you buy things. Another interesting thing I've read somewhere, and would be interested in a link if someone knows of it: all/many of these higher-perk cards charge the merchants more when they're used. It's best for businesses if you use the most basic cards, or far better if you use cash. But I just dislike credit card companies. And their "rating" systems. I must be cranky right now or something, because I feel like spreading the dislike :\

jrockway 16y ago
This probably doesn't cost very much money. A friend of mine in India mentions that with the average programmer's salary there, you can afford to have several personal servants. For the salary of one employee in the US that manages HR compliance, you can probably have 10 people in India that Google for the nearest store that sells tubs of nacho cheese. But nobody complains about how HR compliance raises the fees you pay in the store. Banks, like all other large corporations, already have epic overhead. A few guys in India using Google and a few people to talk to you on the phone does not make much difference to their bottom line. (But it does impress people.) (Oh, and what is "HR compliance"? No idea, but I'm sure every bank has at least 5000 people that do it.)
Timothee 16y ago
As a foreigner, the US credit card and rating system puzzled me a bit. But the most annoying thing about it is that it's difficult not to be part of it. If you have credit cards or not, you will have a credit score and that score will be used when you want to buy a house for example… For a couple of years after moving here, I was using either cash or a debit card, but I switched to credit card for a lot of things mostly because you kind of have to play in the credit score game.
- gaius 16y ago
  You only need to be a part of it if you ever want anyone to extend any sort of credit to you, no?

chaosmachine 16y ago

"But that’s a lot of work, so I’m hoping you guys can do it for me. Just call and give me a daily affirmation." "You want us to call and tell you you’re a good person?" "That’s right." So, was this the inspiration for Awesomeness Reminders? http://www.awesomenessreminders.com/ http://www.awesomenessreminders.com/

zackattack 16y ago
Yes
- zackattack 16y ago
  Maybe

arithmetic 16y ago

As I was reading this article, I was thinking, "Really? You can ask that and they do it for you?". It just never occurred to me that I would need a personal assistant to help me find a tub of nachos (or help me with a crossword or any other chores). I just find it..weird. On the other hand, this article pretty much sold me into determining if I need a Visa Signature card.

jballanc 16y ago

You know, honestly these requests weren't all that outrageous... I've recently become rather disheartened at just how little "extra" it takes to impress American's these days. Many societies around the world take it for granted that services is a part of...well..."service". For example, when I was in Turkey with my wife, we were a just your average cafe. We really like the little tea spoons that they had, and wanted some for home. We asked the waiter if the cafe had any extra they would mind selling us. He told us that the ones they had were all dinged and used, and wouldn't it be better to have some brand new spoons? We agreed, and he sent one of the other boys working in the back down to the local store to buy some for us while we sat and sipped our tea. Ordinary little cafe...nothing really that out of the ordinary...so why is this so foreign in America?

lionhearted 16y ago
> You know, honestly these requests weren't all that outrageous... True. Another valuable one - if your bank doesn't suck, you can probably meet with the branch VP and talk personal finance with him and get some advice on credit scores, what accounts he recommends, tax accounts, credit cards, etc. I used to meet with the head of the Citizen's Bank branch in Boston where I was near every two months or so for a quick chat, and he was always friendly and cool. Sometimes he'd ask me about technology and I'd answer some questions. I didn't have crazy money in the bank, I think any customer service-focused bank would do this for you if you're friendly and cool.
krmmalik 16y ago
I just got back from Turkey 2 weeks ago. I know exactly what you're talking about. Hospitality is a matter of great pride for the Turks, as is in many countries in the middle-east and Asia. And you're right, this idea is very foreign only in places like America and the UK. This point wouldnt even be a matter of discussion in countries like that. Its so normal.
jrockway 16y ago
Honestly, I've never had any good customer service experiences outside of America. In Japan, everything is, "we're sorry, but it's been decided that...". In the UK, everything is, "for security purposes, you can't...".

encoderer 16y ago

I have the Schwab 2% cash back Signature card. I've used the concierge service for some awesome things: 1. I knew I was going to propose to my GF in St. Augustine on a long weekend but I'd never been there. So I asked for a complete scouting report. Lists of good restaurants (plus reservations), good places to ask her, etc. They came through in awesome style. 2. We were shopping in Chicago and she fell in love with, but didn't buy, a Coach purse. Her birthday was a month later so, back home, a thousand miles away, I went to buy that purse. Sold out. They checked near by stores: Sold Out. I check websites: Sold Out. I called my Concierge. They contacted Coach for me. They verified that every single Coach store was sold out of this purse, when the next shipment was coming in, which stores would get the purses from that very next shippment, and how much shipping would cost if I ordered from the closest one and had it delivered. 3. When a Generic prescription drug became suddenly unavailable, I asked about "why". They refused to help because of the questions Medical nature. Even when I told them it was just personal FYI and I wasn't actually taking the medicine (a lie, but i thought it might work)

varaon 16y ago
>They refused to help because of the questions Medical nature. Even when I told them it was just personal FYI and I wasn't actually taking the medicine (a lie, but i thought it might work) I suspect that this is a liability issue.

alexbowman 16y ago

Bloomberg have somewhat offered this service. One lucky enough to have a Bloomberg terminal (providing financial news and information services) have access to a helpdesk built into the software via the messaging system (to query data, news, etc). This helpdesk has had huge appeal in other areas - booking restaurants, book recommendations, ideas for things to do on holiday - for many many years. When paying at least $15k/year for such a terminal (often much more), and a client often having hundreds installed, if not thousands, it is a beautiful example of going a little extra for a lot of goodwill.

ig1 16y ago
The Bloomberg helpdesk was never designed to be used in that way, but generally the guys and gals staffing it were given quite a lot of flexibility in answering clients. Bloomberg actually took quite an interesting approach to staffing their helpdesk, everyone (except for developers) who joins the company from university has to spend a few months working on the help desk. So all the help desk staff are highly educated locals rather than outsourced labour. They probably have some of the most capable helpdesk staff in the technology industry.
infinite8s 16y ago
I used to work for the company, and even employees could access the helpdesk (they definitely ate their own dogfood - everything was done through the terminal).

bergie 16y ago

I've had a Diners Club card with concierge service for a couple of years now, and have used the service only once. Based on talking to people who work in a concierge company they can in most cases only do the things you could've done with a little Googling yourself. It is nice to have somebody look for flights, hotels or restaurants for you, but in general by doing it yourself you get it done a lot more quickly. 5 minutes to findband book a hotel using the phone browser, vs. about the same time on the phone, and waiting them 12 hours to get it done...

nitfol 16y ago

I was excited to try this service out after reading the article. I called them up, and after a couple minutes on hold, was connected to Michael. I didn't need to enter my account number, but it's possible they used my phone number to know that I have a credit card. I asked him if there were any local stores that sold caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew. He put me on hold for a couple minutes and came back, asking if I had tried Wal-Mart or grocery stores. I told him I hadn't seen it there. He said that he found some Facebook page talking about caffeine-free Mountain Dew, but he was unable to access it because Facebook was blocked from his location. He suggested I search on google for it myself. He apologized for being unable to help me. So I searched and the second hit pointed me to http://www.pepsiproductfacts.com/storelocator/index600.html http://www.pepsiproductfacts.com/storelocator/index600.html and there is a store 19 miles from me that sells the "extremely limited" caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew. I'm not impressed.

DougBTX 16y ago
Or rather, Google made the more lasting impression first: that finding things is easy.

dmoney 16y ago

Any idea how much these cost, or how much it would cost to get this service without the card? Will they order and buy stuff for you (e.g. from Amazon), or just tell you where it is?

gaius 16y ago
http://www.quintessentially.com/join-us/ http://www.quintessentially.com/join-us/ says it starts at #1000/year.

there 16y ago

“Money is no object,” I said, “but I am on a budget.”

nitrogen 16y ago
Possible translation: "Whatever it takes, but no more"?

seles 16y ago

Is it just me or does that sound like a fun job, to answer stranger's strange requests?

joshu 16y ago

I'm disappointed. I was hoping that they would explain how to efficiently use this. I use the Amex Platinum concierge when I travel. "I need reservations at good restaurants for these three nights." They lock in the reservations and email me a schedule. Then I go back and try to use open table and/or trip advisor to find better stuff and cancel/replace as necessary. I often get the feeling I am Doing It Wrong, and wish people would share the right way.

Alarmed 16y ago

I've done security assessments of outsourcers providing this service before. One was mostly aligned with credit card companies, one was an company that offered this in conjunction with travel insurance. Interestingly, all agents in both cases were in the US. (It's possible some call QA was offshored, I don't recall in these instances but that's very common.) In my review, the providers had little familiarity with the data security controls of the credit card industry (aka PCI). One was PCI certified, one was not but 'working on it'. The one that had been certified had somehow convinced their QSA (the PCI auditor) to not review the systems their agents used, only the core infrastructure. The provider with home-based agents let their agents use their own computers to service callers, and it was quiet possible that the agent had never met anyone from the hiring company face-to-face. Now, as a matter of course, probably only 1-3% of the calls actually required the agent take a credit card number (to order something for the customer). Most of the time the agents were just answering questions. Most of the agents would never see the caller's credit card number from the issuing bank. From a information security point-of-view I wouldn't have any problem using the providers I reviewed (although, even as a frequent traveller, I've never had an occasion where it seemed like it would be useful), but I'd stop short of giving them my credit card number.