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What will be the Code of Ethics? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-monitoring-insight/from-laboratory-in-far-west-chinas-surveillance-state-spreads-quiet

by jn1234 8y ago

What will be the Code of Ethics? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-monitoring-insight/from-laboratory-in-far-west-chinas-surveillance-state-spreads-quietly-idUSKBN1KZ0R3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-monitoring-insight/...

Leary 8y ago
Given the sensitive nature of this topic, I propose HackerNews be given the authority of drafting the Code of Ethics for YC China in order to ensure democratic accountability. Posters could nominate particular statues/principles they like and the community at large can vote on them.
- jbigelow76 8y ago
  The HackerNews crowd isn't even allowed to make comments on YC seeded company job postings, I wouldn't hold your breath on being able to craft a sister company's code of ethics.
est 8y ago
Since when Code of Ethics equals to McCarthyism?
- friedman23 8y ago
  Doing business in China is unethical.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Doing business with the Chinese government is unethical. Doing business with Chinese entrepreneurs and providing services to the Chinese people is a humanitarian imperative. Without going to far into the political weeds, the US has never delivered freedom effectively at the end of a gun, but rather through McDonalds and Coca Cola.
    - friedman23 8y ago
      All Chinese businesses are subordinate to the PRC. It is my personal opinion that we have reached a point of technological progress where totalitarian control of massive states such as China is simply possible when it wasn't a few decades prior to the advent of modern computing. I do not have any faith that any amount of trade with China will cause the government to reform in any meaningful way and I'm confident that China will remain a dictatorship a thousand years from now.
    - jumelles 8y ago
      > Doing business with Chinese entrepreneurs and providing services to the Chinese people is a humanitarian imperative. There is literally no way to do this without the cooperation of the Chinese government.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Than you be pragmatic and make concessions.
        jumelles 8y ago
        We should never, ever make concessions when it comes to human rights.
        est 8y ago
        Elon Musk needs to hear that. Stop doing business with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund!
        jumelles 8y ago
        Yes. With the astronomical level of clout that Elon Musk has, I'm willing to call him immoral, unethical, and a bad person for doing business with KSA. A vanishingly small number of people are as influential as Musk, and his actions inspire and are emulated worldwide. Saudi Arabia is currently trying to rehabilitate its image (while maintaining its vicious corporal punishments, extremist views, support of terrorism, and legalized misogyny) and shouldn't have help from anyone who claims to care about anything other than profit.
  - dang 8y ago
    No flamebait or flamewars, please. Least of all nationalistic ones.
    - friedman23 8y ago
      It has nothing to do with nationalism. The PRC is a dictatorship that currently has millions of people in concentration camps undergoing reeducation, suppresses freedom of expression for its citizens, and crushes minority cultures.
      - dang 8y ago
        Dismissing or condemning an entire country like you did, besides being unsubstantive, certainly qualifies as nationalistic flamebait in the sense that we use the term here. Please don't post like this to HN.
        fusiongyro 8y ago
        The comment may be referencing this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17737942 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17737942
        dang 8y ago
        The root comment didn't reference that or anything else. The problem with bringing such links into arguments like this is that no one does so for reasons of intellectual interest. For example, in this case, people aren't actually interested in the plight of the Uighurs. Rather, it's convenient ammunition for justifying pre-existing political and national feelings. Such a move is not part of thoughtful conversation at all; it's just ideology and tribal loyalty, which explains why the discussions are so utterly repetitive—and therefore off topic for HN.
        fusiongyro 8y ago
        Fair enough.
  - 4684499 8y ago
    You don't have to serve the government. If you refuse to serve Chinese people, that's another level of the story. If you think serving people in China is somehow helping the government, you are somehow admitting the legitimacy of the government. Is it ethical that doing business in Five Eye countries? Is providing tools/services to the people considered unethical comparing to providing none? What about free services that everyone including the Chinese can access via Internet? Are they unethical because they didn't block the Chinese? Thoughts?

by jn1234 8y ago

Leary 8y ago

Given the sensitive nature of this topic, I propose HackerNews be given the authority of drafting the Code of Ethics for YC China in order to ensure democratic accountability. Posters could nominate particular statues/principles they like and the community at large can vote on them.

jbigelow76 8y ago
The HackerNews crowd isn't even allowed to make comments on YC seeded company job postings, I wouldn't hold your breath on being able to craft a sister company's code of ethics.

est 8y ago

Since when Code of Ethics equals to McCarthyism?

friedman23 8y ago
Doing business in China is unethical.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Doing business with the Chinese government is unethical. Doing business with Chinese entrepreneurs and providing services to the Chinese people is a humanitarian imperative. Without going to far into the political weeds, the US has never delivered freedom effectively at the end of a gun, but rather through McDonalds and Coca Cola.
  - friedman23 8y ago
    All Chinese businesses are subordinate to the PRC. It is my personal opinion that we have reached a point of technological progress where totalitarian control of massive states such as China is simply possible when it wasn't a few decades prior to the advent of modern computing. I do not have any faith that any amount of trade with China will cause the government to reform in any meaningful way and I'm confident that China will remain a dictatorship a thousand years from now.
  - jumelles 8y ago
    > Doing business with Chinese entrepreneurs and providing services to the Chinese people is a humanitarian imperative. There is literally no way to do this without the cooperation of the Chinese government.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Than you be pragmatic and make concessions.
      - jumelles 8y ago
        We should never, ever make concessions when it comes to human rights.
        est 8y ago
        Elon Musk needs to hear that. Stop doing business with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund!
        jumelles 8y ago
        Yes. With the astronomical level of clout that Elon Musk has, I'm willing to call him immoral, unethical, and a bad person for doing business with KSA. A vanishingly small number of people are as influential as Musk, and his actions inspire and are emulated worldwide. Saudi Arabia is currently trying to rehabilitate its image (while maintaining its vicious corporal punishments, extremist views, support of terrorism, and legalized misogyny) and shouldn't have help from anyone who claims to care about anything other than profit.
- dang 8y ago
  No flamebait or flamewars, please. Least of all nationalistic ones.
  - friedman23 8y ago
    It has nothing to do with nationalism. The PRC is a dictatorship that currently has millions of people in concentration camps undergoing reeducation, suppresses freedom of expression for its citizens, and crushes minority cultures.
    - dang 8y ago
      Dismissing or condemning an entire country like you did, besides being unsubstantive, certainly qualifies as nationalistic flamebait in the sense that we use the term here. Please don't post like this to HN.
      - fusiongyro 8y ago
        The comment may be referencing this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17737942 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17737942
        dang 8y ago
        The root comment didn't reference that or anything else. The problem with bringing such links into arguments like this is that no one does so for reasons of intellectual interest. For example, in this case, people aren't actually interested in the plight of the Uighurs. Rather, it's convenient ammunition for justifying pre-existing political and national feelings. Such a move is not part of thoughtful conversation at all; it's just ideology and tribal loyalty, which explains why the discussions are so utterly repetitive—and therefore off topic for HN.
        fusiongyro 8y ago
        Fair enough.
- 4684499 8y ago
  You don't have to serve the government. If you refuse to serve Chinese people, that's another level of the story. If you think serving people in China is somehow helping the government, you are somehow admitting the legitimacy of the government. Is it ethical that doing business in Five Eye countries? Is providing tools/services to the people considered unethical comparing to providing none? What about free services that everyone including the Chinese can access via Internet? Are they unethical because they didn't block the Chinese? Thoughts?