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> I guess is the goal for everyone to join in some sort of majoritarian social contract? Being a lgbt person growing up I didn't interact in my local small comm

> I guess is the goal for everyone to join in some sort of majoritarian social contract? Being a lgbt person growing up I didn't interact in my local small community at all, because there was a damn good chance the local community would band together and mob me for being what I am. Alternately, by removing yourself from your community you failed to give them examples that would've broadened their horizons. Like, this is one form of problem with today's filter bubbles--they help polarize communities by preventing the natural mechanisms of discovery and compromise that are required for groups of humans to coexist in meatspace.

SeanBoocock 8y ago
Are you suggesting that a closeted person has any sort of obligation to come out to (potential) bigots so that said bigots can attain a more enlightened worldview? It is not incumbent on marginalized people to teach their oppressors the errors in their ways, often at great risk to themselves.
- Kalium 8y ago
  I agree with your point wholeheartedly and completely. You are fully correct in every possible way, in every detail. With that said, a more charitable reading might be that the person was noting the power of representation and role models to inspire.
- tjr225 8y ago
  I think that's exactly what they're suggesting and it's totally absurd.
- kennyadam 8y ago
  Who is it that teaches the oppressors the error of their ways? I'd suggest it is actually the marginalized people. Civil rights movement is a great example.
  - ahje 8y ago
    What you are suggesting is that school bullies would simply cease to be bullies when you show them the error of their ways. Alas, that's not how the World works. The only way to get to people like that is to hurt them, either physically, mentally, economically or socially. That's what we're doing as a collective by changing norms so that it's no longer considered acceptable to beat people up for being <insert whichever unique attribute you want>. Doing that will result in conflicts. Sometimes those conflicts will escalate into violent ones. As a single person it's often not viable to proceed into that territory alone, and so it's better to widthdraw from that society.
  - taurath 8y ago
    Yeah, but from a place of power where they can unify and message correctly, not one from the places where people are being oppressed. When the prevailing message isn’t “oh gosh this is horrible” but “that other person got what they deserved” you’re not going to change people’s mind. For every MLK there were hundreds of lynchings. You can’t lead with no followers.
taurath 8y ago
When you're in a place that is actually unsafe, where people get assaulted for being different, that's a difficult ask. I went to a safe space first. And due to the magic of the internet (and telling my parents) people definitely know. The culture has changed enough to where it IS safe now to come out in that community (the worst that will happen is you get put into a camp, unlikely assaulted other than at school), but it wasn't then - the ADULTS would come after you. The first thing I heard after I came out was "don't tell anyone, I don't want anyone firebombing my house". People weren't unenlightened because LGBT people were hiding, LGBT people were hiding because of a fear of violence and ostracization. Only when it became unacceptable to be violent towards people did they change, and that's a slow process. Only then can you effect any change. There are braver people than I who stayed in those situations, but most of them were also a lot better at fitting in with the community in the first place.

SeanBoocock 8y ago

Are you suggesting that a closeted person has any sort of obligation to come out to (potential) bigots so that said bigots can attain a more enlightened worldview? It is not incumbent on marginalized people to teach their oppressors the errors in their ways, often at great risk to themselves.

Kalium 8y ago
I agree with your point wholeheartedly and completely. You are fully correct in every possible way, in every detail. With that said, a more charitable reading might be that the person was noting the power of representation and role models to inspire.
tjr225 8y ago
I think that's exactly what they're suggesting and it's totally absurd.
kennyadam 8y ago
Who is it that teaches the oppressors the error of their ways? I'd suggest it is actually the marginalized people. Civil rights movement is a great example.
- ahje 8y ago
  What you are suggesting is that school bullies would simply cease to be bullies when you show them the error of their ways. Alas, that's not how the World works. The only way to get to people like that is to hurt them, either physically, mentally, economically or socially. That's what we're doing as a collective by changing norms so that it's no longer considered acceptable to beat people up for being <insert whichever unique attribute you want>. Doing that will result in conflicts. Sometimes those conflicts will escalate into violent ones. As a single person it's often not viable to proceed into that territory alone, and so it's better to widthdraw from that society.
- taurath 8y ago
  Yeah, but from a place of power where they can unify and message correctly, not one from the places where people are being oppressed. When the prevailing message isn’t “oh gosh this is horrible” but “that other person got what they deserved” you’re not going to change people’s mind. For every MLK there were hundreds of lynchings. You can’t lead with no followers.

taurath 8y ago

When you're in a place that is actually unsafe, where people get assaulted for being different, that's a difficult ask. I went to a safe space first. And due to the magic of the internet (and telling my parents) people definitely know. The culture has changed enough to where it IS safe now to come out in that community (the worst that will happen is you get put into a camp, unlikely assaulted other than at school), but it wasn't then - the ADULTS would come after you. The first thing I heard after I came out was "don't tell anyone, I don't want anyone firebombing my house". People weren't unenlightened because LGBT people were hiding, LGBT people were hiding because of a fear of violence and ostracization. Only when it became unacceptable to be violent towards people did they change, and that's a slow process. Only then can you effect any change. There are braver people than I who stayed in those situations, but most of them were also a lot better at fitting in with the community in the first place.