26 ms·

Agreed; I have been driving for 20 years, motorcycle rider for 10 (and have owned anything from 50cc scooter which was my favourite, through 400cc supermoto to

Agreed; I have been driving for 20 years, motorcycle rider for 10 (and have owned anything from 50cc scooter which was my favourite, through 400cc supermoto to 750cc adventure/touring), enjoy bicycles - but the e-scooters / electric mopeds in Toronto, Canada are absolutely horrendous. They follow no particular rules of traffic - one second they are a vehicle occupying middle of a lane and blocking other vehicles. Next second they are a bicycle scooching to the right of the lane. Then they are pedestrian, crossing the street over a pedestrian crossing when all the rest of the traffic has come to a stop. All throughout they are drunkenly weaving in and out with no predictability or order. They have no training, no safety equipment, no licensing, no enforcement, no accountability, and no care. In the meantime everybody else around them is trying very very very hard not to be part of a fatal accident. So like the poster, I have no problem with technology. I have huge problems with lack of regulation and enforcement, and/or the users of such vehicles. They are fairly explicitly advertised as tool to avoid regulation, insurance, rules and safety, for their own personal selfish convenience; and again, explicitly designed to mislead - they are designed to look like a motorized scooter [why not make them look like an eBike that they are?], but with semi-functional pedals so they can claim they are a bicycle. Get these punks off my lawn! :-) [and let the hate and downvote begin!:]

Haydos585x2 8y ago
There's a few people around me that ride them around and I feel the same way as you. I very very rarely ride my motorbike wihtout at least kevlar leggings and a kevlar jacket but I see these inexperienced riders riding through the streets and footpaths at 40km/h with a bicycle helmet on and a kid on the back, sometimes with a helmet, sometimes without. It's dumb. It's also unfortunate that it's going to take ~10 people to die/permanent disability before anything is done about it. I think you're right about the design of the bikes too. The ones I see are definitely designed to look and function like a moped/motorcycle.
kough 8y ago
Every single one of these complaints can and is frequently made about bicyclists as well. Maybe the problem is the increased number of people using bikes of any sort without training rather than anything specific about the fact that they're motorized.
- NikolaNovak 8y ago
  Fair enough - there's truth in what you're saying :) But while strictly speaking behaviour and concern overall are to your point similar; I think what additionally bothers me personally [and I recognize this is an emotional reaction] is this feeling of overt attempt to mislead. A bicycle is a bicycle is a bicycle. They are predictably unpredictable - I understand what to expect out of them ("Anything":). These electric scooters are intentionally made to look like a licensed motorized scooter which (in Toronto) is a vehicle like any other, licensed, insured and held accountable. Motorized scooter's behaviour is in principle predictable like any other car or motorcycle vehicle - they ride in the blocking position of lane and obey all traffic rules. The electric scooters try to gain the veneer of respectability of motorized vehicle and look different than bicycles/e-bikes... but they do not behave like motorized scooters or motorcycles (and couldn't even if they wanted to - they cannot keep up with traffic to tide in blocking position and move with the flow).

Haydos585x2 8y ago

There's a few people around me that ride them around and I feel the same way as you. I very very rarely ride my motorbike wihtout at least kevlar leggings and a kevlar jacket but I see these inexperienced riders riding through the streets and footpaths at 40km/h with a bicycle helmet on and a kid on the back, sometimes with a helmet, sometimes without. It's dumb. It's also unfortunate that it's going to take ~10 people to die/permanent disability before anything is done about it. I think you're right about the design of the bikes too. The ones I see are definitely designed to look and function like a moped/motorcycle.

kough 8y ago

Every single one of these complaints can and is frequently made about bicyclists as well. Maybe the problem is the increased number of people using bikes of any sort without training rather than anything specific about the fact that they're motorized.

NikolaNovak 8y ago
Fair enough - there's truth in what you're saying :) But while strictly speaking behaviour and concern overall are to your point similar; I think what additionally bothers me personally [and I recognize this is an emotional reaction] is this feeling of overt attempt to mislead. A bicycle is a bicycle is a bicycle. They are predictably unpredictable - I understand what to expect out of them ("Anything":). These electric scooters are intentionally made to look like a licensed motorized scooter which (in Toronto) is a vehicle like any other, licensed, insured and held accountable. Motorized scooter's behaviour is in principle predictable like any other car or motorcycle vehicle - they ride in the blocking position of lane and obey all traffic rules. The electric scooters try to gain the veneer of respectability of motorized vehicle and look different than bicycles/e-bikes... but they do not behave like motorized scooters or motorcycles (and couldn't even if they wanted to - they cannot keep up with traffic to tide in blocking position and move with the flow).