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Having a moped race past you with 50km/h on a bike lane is a pretty terrifying experience and I'd much prefer that they use roads. Bike lanes are too narrow fo

Having a moped race past you with 50km/h on a bike lane is a pretty terrifying experience and I'd much prefer that they use roads. Bike lanes are too narrow for motorised vehicles, and some ebikes are pushing the limits as well (eg. Urban Arrow bikes don't make me feel very safe on narrow bike lanes either)

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
Sensible places ban all motor vehicles from sidewalks and bike paths. They belong in the road with other low speed ICE powered scooters and mopeds.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  A bike with a small electric motor is no problem in a bike path, and allows people who have mobility issues, just don't like sweating up a hill on the way to work, etc. to still cycle instead of drive. A low powered moped doesn't belong in the road in most places.
jessaustin 8y ago
That's true but some motorized gadgets are pretty slow. One time, due to a stoplight, I crossed an intersection at the same time as a guy on some sort of skateboard with an engine. My acceleration on my bicycle was much better than his, and I left him far behind. Several blocks later (this was a road with few stoplights), I heard his noisy approach from behind and enjoyed his triumphant smile at having finally overtaken me. Apparently his motor had a bit more power once it got totally revved up... The point is, he was a menace to anyone on the (thankfully deserted) sidewalk, and would have been something of hazard in the street.
- teachrdan 8y ago
  I would hazard that the limiting factor for the skateboarder wasn't the motor but the fact that if he accelerated as quickly as the motor would allow he'd fly off of it. Electric motors are notoriously torque-y. (which many users enjoy)
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    This was about 12 years ago, so it was actually a two-stroke motor. More power at full RPMs meant less torque at lower RPMs... Nevertheless policy probably shouldn't consider something so rare so this is a bit OT.
derefr 8y ago
You can't really (usefully) regulate based on speed; any alternative transportation can potentially be really dang fast. I've seen motorized wheelchairs hitting 50km/h. I think it makes the most sense to regulate based on maximum achievable momentum (maximum engine torque is used as a heuristic for this), or even maximum achievable collision force (momentum ÷ surface area of forward-travelling side) of the vehicle at any carrying capacity. So a motorcycle is a lot more dangerous than a moped, not even because of the weight of the vehicle alone at speed, but because you can fit two people on there, the motorcycle has enough torque to get up to the same speed with those two people aboard, and so the whole vechicle-rider system will have more momentum (impart more collision force) at the same speed. And some electric skateboards / hoverboards are also very dangerous, because if they manage to fully torque up while without a rider, they can shoot out and hit someone in the legs with a high momentum delivered across a very small front facing plane. Like a bullet! (And, obviously, trucks are more dangerous than cars, simply because you can put a bunch of stuff in the bed and still get them up to the same speed as a car.) Although the simple solution here is policy and divided roads, I could imagine a simple-ish technological solution: a torque governor hooked up to normal-force sensors on the suspension. So a motorcycle with one person on it would simply not be able to "work as hard" as the same motorcycle with two people on it [except when going up a hill, since normal forces would increase]; and a vehicle with no rider at all would immediately clutch to neutral and brake to bleed off the "above limit" torque.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago

Sensible places ban all motor vehicles from sidewalks and bike paths. They belong in the road with other low speed ICE powered scooters and mopeds.

CalRobert 8y ago
A bike with a small electric motor is no problem in a bike path, and allows people who have mobility issues, just don't like sweating up a hill on the way to work, etc. to still cycle instead of drive. A low powered moped doesn't belong in the road in most places.

jessaustin 8y ago

That's true but some motorized gadgets are pretty slow. One time, due to a stoplight, I crossed an intersection at the same time as a guy on some sort of skateboard with an engine. My acceleration on my bicycle was much better than his, and I left him far behind. Several blocks later (this was a road with few stoplights), I heard his noisy approach from behind and enjoyed his triumphant smile at having finally overtaken me. Apparently his motor had a bit more power once it got totally revved up... The point is, he was a menace to anyone on the (thankfully deserted) sidewalk, and would have been something of hazard in the street.

teachrdan 8y ago
I would hazard that the limiting factor for the skateboarder wasn't the motor but the fact that if he accelerated as quickly as the motor would allow he'd fly off of it. Electric motors are notoriously torque-y. (which many users enjoy)
- jessaustin 8y ago
  This was about 12 years ago, so it was actually a two-stroke motor. More power at full RPMs meant less torque at lower RPMs... Nevertheless policy probably shouldn't consider something so rare so this is a bit OT.

derefr 8y ago

You can't really (usefully) regulate based on speed; any alternative transportation can potentially be really dang fast. I've seen motorized wheelchairs hitting 50km/h. I think it makes the most sense to regulate based on maximum achievable momentum (maximum engine torque is used as a heuristic for this), or even maximum achievable collision force (momentum ÷ surface area of forward-travelling side) of the vehicle at any carrying capacity. So a motorcycle is a lot more dangerous than a moped, not even because of the weight of the vehicle alone at speed, but because you can fit two people on there, the motorcycle has enough torque to get up to the same speed with those two people aboard, and so the whole vechicle-rider system will have more momentum (impart more collision force) at the same speed. And some electric skateboards / hoverboards are also very dangerous, because if they manage to fully torque up while without a rider, they can shoot out and hit someone in the legs with a high momentum delivered across a very small front facing plane. Like a bullet! (And, obviously, trucks are more dangerous than cars, simply because you can put a bunch of stuff in the bed and still get them up to the same speed as a car.) Although the simple solution here is policy and divided roads, I could imagine a simple-ish technological solution: a torque governor hooked up to normal-force sensors on the suspension. So a motorcycle with one person on it would simply not be able to "work as hard" as the same motorcycle with two people on it [except when going up a hill, since normal forces would increase]; and a vehicle with no rider at all would immediately clutch to neutral and brake to bleed off the "above limit" torque.